JohannesHH Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hi! I ran into the same problems (rebooting when engine is started) with my new F910BT (european model). I am thinking of fixing this with Joe's original schematic (avic.pdf) but I have some additional questions and I kindly ask the specialists here for help. 1. Putting a fuse into the NiCd Battery plus is of course a wise idea. How many amperes should such a fuse be? Someone within this thread said that the AVIC takes up to 10 amps during operation, so should that be a 10 amp fuse or less? 2. Just to be sure I understand the schematic correctly: When the AVIC runs under normal operation does it pull its current from the yellow constant power line? Is this correct? Otherwise if it pulls its current from the read ACC line then this would mean that all the current has to be sourced through Q1 transistor (up to 10 amps?). Do I understand this correct? 3. I assume the diodes should be of Schottky type - correct? Here in Austria I could get MBR1645 schottky diodes (45 Volt, 16 Amps), can I use this type and do they need some heat sink? Do the transistors need a heat sink (mainly Q1)? 4. Someone up in this thread said, that charging the NiCd cells will only take place when the engine runs. If I correctly understand the schematic (avic.pdf) I cannot see this feature. The cells are connected to CAR_CONST_PWR via the 10 Ohm resistor, so charging can take place every time only depending on the voltagle levels of the car battery and the NiCd cells. Correct? 5. If I understand #4 correctly, is it possible to add something that would prevent charging when the engine is off (maybe relais?)? 6. My car (Mazda 5) switches CAR_ACC_PWR off during engine start. Some here said that adding a capacitor whould help for holding AVIC_ACC_PWR high for a few seconds during engine start. Can some please explain where exactly that capacitor has to be added and what value this capacitor has to have? Please excuse me for this detailed questions but I simply want to be sure that I really have understood all this correctly. Thank You for helping Regards from Vienna/Austria/Europe Johannes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Segler1963 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Had the same problem with my '08 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 crdi AWD and found the following off the shelf solution: http://www.medienelektronik.de/Artikel/ ... tronik.htm Should work as plug and play for most cars in Europe with ISO style harness, for the Pioneer you just need one additional Diode in the yellow cable and you are fine. Buffers 5-6 secs, so long enough for cranking. The implied electronic circuit prevent the dangers usually involved with Caps Any questions let me know Jörg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddog hoek Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 If you are not having voltage drop problems try a time delay relay like this... http://www.drillspot.com/products/49670 ... elay_Relay . Otherwise you will need the setup listed in the AVIC.pdf. You could temporarily wire up your red lead to constant power and see if the radio still reboots when the car is started. From that you'll know which way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joegr Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hi! I ran into the same problems (rebooting when engine is started) with my new F910BT (european model). I am thinking of fixing this with Joe's original schematic (avic.pdf) but I have some additional questions and I kindly ask the specialists here for help. 1. Putting a fuse into the NiCd Battery plus is of course a wise idea. How many amperes should such a fuse be? Someone within this thread said that the AVIC takes up to 10 amps during operation, so should that be a 10 amp fuse or less? 2. Just to be sure I understand the schematic correctly: When the AVIC runs under normal operation does it pull its current from the yellow constant power line? Is this correct? Otherwise if it pulls its current from the read ACC line then this would mean that all the current has to be sourced through Q1 transistor (up to 10 amps?). Do I understand this correct? 3. I assume the diodes should be of Schottky type - correct? Here in Austria I could get MBR1645 schottky diodes (45 Volt, 16 Amps), can I use this type and do they need some heat sink? Do the transistors need a heat sink (mainly Q1)? 4. Someone up in this thread said, that charging the NiCd cells will only take place when the engine runs. If I correctly understand the schematic (avic.pdf) I cannot see this feature. The cells are connected to CAR_CONST_PWR via the 10 Ohm resistor, so charging can take place every time only depending on the voltagle levels of the car battery and the NiCd cells. Correct? 5. If I understand #4 correctly, is it possible to add something that would prevent charging when the engine is off (maybe relais?)? 6. My car (Mazda 5) switches CAR_ACC_PWR off during engine start. Some here said that adding a capacitor whould help for holding AVIC_ACC_PWR high for a few seconds during engine start. Can some please explain where exactly that capacitor has to be added and what value this capacitor has to have? Please excuse me for this detailed questions but I simply want to be sure that I really have understood all this correctly. Thank You for helping Regards from Vienna/Austria/Europe Johannes 1. 10 Amps is good. A 5A slow blow might be better. 2. All current is pulled from the yellow wire. The red wire is just a signal wire. 3.Yes, no heat sinks needed. 4. They won't charge while the engine is off because the car battery voltage (without the alternator running) will be less than the NiCd voltage. 5. Not needed, they won't be charging then anyway. 6. It would be better to add a timing circuit. Something simple based on a 555 timer IC should be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohannesHH Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 @maddog hoek Yes, I have voltage drop problems. I already tested a solution with relais with delay which in fact did connect the red wire to the constant power (yellow wire) but reboot still did occur because voltage also on the yellow wire (constant power) drops down to a litte bit more than 10 Volts (I think when it will get cold in winter it will get worse). So I think either a solution with "secondary battery" or with a "big capacitor" are the only two possibilities. Thank you Johannes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohannesHH Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 @joegr Joe, thank you for answering all my questions! I think now I understand what your schematic means and how it works. Regards Johannes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marco899 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 So I think either a solution with "secondary battery" or with a "big capacitor" are the only two possibilities. Thank you Johannes Well i have made that system and it's working. I have used a motor battery 12v 5Ah, an timer relay t40205 and three normal relays. I have used the ground pulse from my interiour light to switch 1 relay to get the right positive pulse for my timer relay. When i remote open my doors, he interior light is on and so it sends a signals to relay 1. This one is activating the timer relay and the timerrelay opens the two other relays. One is disconnecting the acc wire and the other one is diconnecting te constant wire. When activated, both the relays are on secondery battery for 30seconds plus the time the interiour light is on. This setup is working fine, but when i leave the car the radio is playing further for 30 seconds (i've i open my door first before swithing off the car). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohannesHH Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Interesting thing! Thanks for sharing your experience and ideas. Johannes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Esilar Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 http://www.medienelektronik.de/Artikel/615/1203/Entstoerung-MUNDORF_HeadCap_SC68_Speichercap_mit_ISO_Anschluss_und_Schutzelektronik.htm Should work as plug and play for most cars in Europe with ISO style harness, for the Pioneer you just need one additional Diode in the yellow cable and you are fine. Buffers 5-6 secs, so long enough for cranking. How u got the value of 5 seconds of buffering? Did you test it? If i take that capacitor (0,068 F) with an AVIC of 2A and 14,4 V in a car and use C = I * t / V solved to t, then the capacitor buffers just 0,5 seconds... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddog hoek Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I was wondering if both leads need to maintain 10.8+ volts? If the signal wire maintained 12v would the radio stay up even if the constant power wire dropped to less than 10.8? = Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marco899 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I was wondering if both leads need to maintain 10.8+ volts? If the signal wire maintained 12v would the radio stay up even if the constant power wire dropped to less than 10.8? = Yes. I've tried and when the acc wire is good and the constant drops, you get a strange effect in a not booting radio. You can hear the fan blowing but i get nothing on my screen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddog hoek Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 thanks for saving me some time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Segler1963 Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 http://www.medienelektronik.de/Artikel/615/1203/Entstoerung-MUNDORF_HeadCap_SC68_Speichercap_mit_ISO_Anschluss_und_Schutzelektronik.htm Should work as plug and play for most cars in Europe with ISO style harness, for the Pioneer you just need one additional Diode in the yellow cable and you are fine. Buffers 5-6 secs, so long enough for cranking. How u got the value of 5 seconds of buffering? Did you test it? If i take that capacitor (0,068 F) with an AVIC of 2A and 14,4 V in a car and use C = I * t / V solved to t, then the capacitor buffers just 0,5 seconds... I have it installed and tested: When I pull out the key the Avic stays on for 5-7 seconds no matter which audio scource is running. Jörg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Esilar Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have it installed and tested: When I pull out the key the Avic stays on for 5-7 seconds no matter which audio scource is running. Jörg Great. Then i'm willing to pay the money for a try...if i can find the necessary space in my dash... Thx for the hint, it seems to be an easy solution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddog hoek Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 I don't know if everyone has solved their problem with this but I just finally broke down and bought a .5 farad capacitor from the local Meijer store (think Walmart). I wired it to the ACC line and now I no longer have any problems. I will wire up a fuse inline to it but other than that it's good to go. As a side note my radio stays on for about 11 seconds after the car is turned off. I can live with that but a .25 farad capacitor may be better. The part I bought is a Scoche PSC.5F20PK. It's probably at walmart too. 45 bucks and no more reboots at the gas station and no more excessive idling! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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