BT MIC issues for BT calls - asking for a sticky

[torbach1]

Have any of you experienced the Bluetooth quality in the Alpine INA-W910 or the INA-W910BT? Is it any better than the Pioneer? If so, what are the downsides to the Alpine in other areas vs. the Pioneer?

 

The only downsides I've heard so far:

1. Nav has 6m POI's vs. 12m in the Pioneer

2. No VR at all

3. Interface is less intuitive (this is subjective with some people preferring the Alpine UI and others preferring the Pioneer)

4. No MusicSphere app (I have to admit that I really like the MusicSphere app)

 

Given the different areas that we can compare, how does the INA-W900BT/910 compare in:

1. Bluetooth

2. Navigation

3. iPod Music Control

4. XM/Sirius

5. HD Radio

6. Sound quality overall given the same speakers

 

Thanks a lot

Tamir

[torbach1]

A separate question which I'll also repost. Does the Z130BT fix these bluetooth issues? Has anyone got one of those and can comment? I am still in a position in which I can replace my 120 with a 130 for not too much of a loss.

 

Thanks a lot

Tamir

[torbach1]

FYI, I replaced the ZT B120 with a ZT B130 today. I didn't spend a long time on the phone through Bluetooth yet, but in every other area this unit is significantly better than the 120. A few examples:

 

1. The sound is actually far better surprisingly. Instead of using either the multiple staging options, none of which sounded particularly good to me, or the EQ, you now have only two staging options - optimized for the drive, optimized for the passenger, and neither. Optimized for the driver with a bit of EQ tweaking has to be amongst the best pure stereo sounds I've heard. I'm very impressed. The 120 was good, but this sounds far better.

2. The navigation seems quicker and so far I like it a lot. It doesn't harm that it includes traffic info - I really wanted that feature and was a bit bummer that the MSN service available for the 120 was not going to be around after January 2012. I had already purchased a traffic module in anticipation of upgrading my 120 to a 130 once the software upgrade was available

3. Comes with XM and HD Radio included

 

I also had the rear view camera installed today. My installer advised me to use an Alpine camera because it supports an Alpine plate mount that keeps it positioned perfectly. I'm glad I took that route. I'm very happy with the image it provides, and I love that you can see it even when driving forward in 2/3rds of the nav screen with the other 1/3rd showing the nav. This is also available for the 120.

 

I'll update once I've had a chance to use the Bluetooth more.

 

Cheers

Tamir

[cooldude117]

Have any of you experienced the Bluetooth quality in the Alpine INA-W910 or the INA-W910BT? Is it any better than the Pioneer? If so, what are the downsides to the Alpine in other areas vs. the Pioneer?

 

The only downsides I've heard so far:

1. Nav has 6m POI's vs. 12m in the Pioneer

2. No VR at all

3. Interface is less intuitive (this is subjective with some people preferring the Alpine UI and others preferring the Pioneer)

4. No MusicSphere app (I have to admit that I really like the MusicSphere app)

 

Given the different areas that we can compare, how does the INA-W900BT/910 compare in:

1. Bluetooth

2. Navigation

3. iPod Music Control

4. XM/Sirius

5. HD Radio

6. Sound quality overall given the same speakers

 

Thanks a lot

Tamir

 

I can comment on the W900. I have an AVIC Z1, INA-W900, and now an AVIC Z130BT. I originally bought the 900 because I wasn't happy with Pioneer's interface on the Z1, in hindsight I should have bought the Z110(current model at the time). I HATE the Alpine unit. I'm not hating for the sake of hating, I used to be pro-alpine everything but they've really gone downhill lately. I'll touch on each of your points specifically so I don't just end up ranting about it.

 

1. Nav has 6m POI's vs. 12m in the Pioneer - I don't really use POI's, but I find even the Pioneer lacking in my area, so I can only imagine how bad the Alpine would be if I turned them on.

2. No VR at all - Really annoying, especially for making phone calls

3. Interface is less intuitive - The Alpine interface is bad, really bad. It feels like they had 2 groups building their software, one on audio, one on nav. They don't flow at all. From the nav screen all you can do is nav stuff, from the audio screen all you can do is audio, well except see a stupid compass or your next turn(in the form of an arrow). Switching between them takes waaay longer than it should, but it re-loads the nav again every time you switch back to it. Want to change songs while looking at your map? Can't do it. you have to go to the audio screen and press the soft button(on screen) to change tracks. It's the only way unless you have steering wheel controls(which I don't). The menus look different between audio and nav (yes there are two separate menus), there are two separate setup menus and some settings are global (the entire unit) so unless you know the unit very well you have to check both menus for what you're trying to find. Map screen feels very low resolution for the screen quality. Audio screen looks great, but you can only change the colour of the background, no image selection. Want to change the map from day to night? You can't. It bases "night" on your location and when the sun sets. Leaves a nice bright blinding screen in darkness sometimes with nothing you can do about it. Same with dimmer. There's no illumination lead, it has a light sensor on the front that will dim the display if you're in darkness, but it's not sensitive enough so it is usually too bright. It's a good looking deck with some good features, but the software wasn't ready for release. Not sure if they've fixed it for the 910, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 4. No MusicSphere app (I have to admit that I really like the MusicSphere app) - Haven't used it yet, but sounds similar to Genius on my iDevice.

 

Given the different areas that we can compare, how does the INA-W900BT/910 compare in:

1. Bluetooth - ANYTHING is better than the AVIC right now. Sticking my head out the window while talking on my phone would sound better than the AVIC, so this is no contest.

2. Navigation - other than the visual differences between maps and interfaces, I'd imagine they work the same. I don't usually use it very much.

3. iPod Music Control - Both are very fast, but the Pioneer is much more intuitive and visually appealing. The alpine can be cumbersome in the menus trying to find what you want, but they both search fast and display info much better than my Z1.

4. XM/Sirius - Don't use, so I don't know

5. HD Radio - Z130 supposedly has HD built in, but there aren't any stations near me that support it so I can't comment

6. Sound quality overall given the same speakers - I haven't had both units installed in the same vehicle, but I can say the Alpine sounded WAY better initially. There was less fiddling to get it dialed in, and it also has less settings. For more settings you can upgrade with an Imprint add on module, but it sounds good even without. On the Z130 I've gotten it into the same ballpark (different vehicle could be the cause as well) It's just taken alot more tuning and fiddling with settings (which there are a lot of)

 

Overall I'd choose the Pioneer 100 times out of 100 over the Alpine.

[torbach1]

Hi Cooldude:

 

Thanks a lot for your detailed response. I ended up replacing my 120 with the Z130BT and am much happier with the 130 than I was with the 120:

 

1. The bluetooth is a bit better and is now acceptable for work calls with my normal daily phone, the Samsung Focus. With another phone I have, the Motorola Q9H, it's pretty good actually. But I would have to switch my sim card to the Moto Q9H every time I get into the car to use it. I'll probably do that when I have important work calls that I have no choice but to attend from my car while driving.

 

2. Sound quality is better. Specifically, the 130 offers sound staging independent of EQ settings (which the 120 does not have unfortunately), and specifically has very good sound staging to make me/the driver feel like I'm at the center of the stereo signal by delaying sound from the left side by a few milliseconds. I want that whilst still having full control of the EQ settings. That's exactly what the 130 offers. The 120's staging didn't really work well for surrounding the driver for whatever reason, and it's built in sound staging EQ settings like Studio, Theater, etc. didn't really do the trick for me either

 

3. The rear view camera switches on within 2 seconds of starting the car despite the rest of the unit taking a bit longer (but still quicker than the 120's boot up time) meaning that if I'm in a rush, I don't have to wait for the unit to completely boot up before reversing with the use of the rear view camera. Btw, based on the installer's recommendation, I went with the Alpine rear view camer and the Alpine plate surround mount. That combination is excellent and I highly recommend it over the Pioneer rear view camera, which doesn't fit into the plate surround bracket. The bracket positions the camera perfectly and points it in exactly the right direction to make it most effective.

 

4. Overall there are a couple of other improvements in the 130 that while small, make it a lot easier to use. For those of you who own the 120, I would definitely upgrade the software to the 130 when that upgrade is made available. It will be well, well worth it.

 

Cheers

Tamir

[bikermike]

4. Overall there are a couple of other improvements in the 130 that while small, make it a lot easier to use. For those of you who own the 120, I would definitely upgrade the software to the 130 when that upgrade is made available. It will be well, well worth it.

 

Cheers

Tamir

when will the upgrade ever happen? i am amazed it is not an open system that would allow a real programmer to make changes to the code. i am still amazed the presets don't automatically put the station number in the line for Sirius. interesting is that a you tube video about the Z120 says it does show it for XM.

[UFGatorGuy]

I'm curious what the results of new mics were. I have the F700BT and stumbled upon this thread while trying to diagnose my own very similar problem. My mic just stopped inputting one day, literally the day before I had perfect BT calling. I removed the mic and attached it to my computer. I was able to use it through my computer, so the mic is functioning, I just get no input (call or voice command). I can hear the other side of my calls fine. I've deleted my paired devices, re paired, etc several times. I'm to the point now that I'm curious how the mic is wired in to the unit, and if it might be possible that something inside the head unit itself went bad. Any thoughts?

[bikermike]

i have called tech support 4 times, i was never given an incident number, and talked to the installer a few times on this issue. the response seems to be to blame the Iphone. but what the Iphone has to do with the slowness of the whole system, the inability of the 120 to understand instructions for the NAV system as well as the phone, the horible voice that is used in the VR system compared to the one used in the NAV instructions. Even if it did understand a simple word like find POI, the delay to react to it is too long. by the time i get it to actually respond to finding a starbucks i have gone 5 miles. when i tested the system in the mazda from the factory it responds fast and clearly.

 

this is all software! whoever they are using for programing is not someone that understands the needs of the customer. this should be an open system that would allow one of us to program the unit because i know i have people that program our products that could do a better job than the ones pioneer has.

 

i wanted the mazda stock Nav system but was lied to by the dealer that i could have a better unit from after market. not true if it does not work for the VR which is one feature that is why we want a system like this.

 

how about a class action law suit to get pioneer moving on a software upgrade?

[rrolff]

i have called tech support 4 times, i was never given an incident number, and talked to the installer a few times on this issue. the response seems to be to blame the Iphone. but what the Iphone has to do with the slowness of the whole system, the inability of the 120 to understand instructions for the NAV system as well as the phone, the horible voice that is used in the VR system compared to the one used in the NAV instructions. Even if it did understand a simple word like find POI, the delay to react to it is too long. by the time i get it to actually respond to finding a starbucks i have gone 5 miles. when i tested the system in the mazda from the factory it responds fast and clearly.

 

this is all software! whoever they are using for programing is not someone that understands the needs of the customer. this should be an open system that would allow one of us to program the unit because i know i have people that program our products that could do a better job than the ones pioneer has.

 

i wanted the mazda stock Nav system but was lied to by the dealer that i could have a better unit from after market. not true if it does not work for the VR which is one feature that is why we want a system like this.

 

how about a class action law suit to get pioneer moving on a software upgrade?

If you had read the previous posts, you would realize that this thread has simply documented the fact that BT is very poor for calls.

I highly doubt it is software - because they would have fixed it in the Z120 update. VR does not work for the same reason BT calls does not work - garbage in = garbage out........

[bikermike]

If you had read the previous posts, you would realize that this thread has simply documented the fact that BT is very poor for calls.

I highly doubt it is software - because they would have fixed it in the Z120 update. VR does not work for the same reason BT calls does not work - garbage in = garbage out........

what update? and yes it is software, it is that VR engine that starts and that is the software. it is not the mic that is the problem. all the delays and not understanding what is spoken, that is all software. and it can be updated if they want to. but if they have no incentive why do it. the shop can be blamed for continuing to sell the z120 when it seems the 130 does not have the problem. or maybe it does and i am not seeing the comments on it.

 

but please do not think this is not a software issue.

[consequential]

I'm a software quality assurance specialist and believe me this is software related unless the hardware component(s) responsible for handling the input of the mic are the cause of this bluetooth/VR issue. The fact that some of us including myself have tried other mic’s on the 120 proves the mic is not the issue especially for those of us who used the supplied mic on another unit and saw it work.

 

The fact that the 130 seems to have these issues resolved indicates the software has been updated to correct previous defects or perhaps a rewriting of the code occurred. Again, this assumes the hardware component(s) that process the input from the mic or take the mic connection are not the cause. But if they are, it would appear the 130 has addressed those as well.

[Fat Tony]

OK so purchasing a new MIC will not solve the crappy quality issue?

[bikermike]

i had an interesting discussion with Rocky. here is his comments

1. there are no updates to the Z120 and there never will be any. it is a dead product no longer in production.

2. the Z130 while using a different chip has the same VR issues as the Z120.

3. all products are driven not by American consumers but by the Japan office.

My comments

1. blaming the BT for the VR problems makes no sense since the problem also exist in the navigation system.

2. blaming the Sirius tuner for not having the station information for the presets makes no sense since the station information is on the screen and it is poor programing that cannot take the information and stick it in to the preset. if nothing else why not allow the user to type in the station information into the preset?

3. i also told him that mobile is a town in Alabama and not another work for cel phone. the mis-pronunciation of the word by the VR shows that it is wasting programing space trying to sound out a work rather than recognizing the word when there are only a few choices of types of numbers

4. blaming the IPhone that the contacts are not downloaded to the Z120 but need to use BT to look up contacts when using VR again is poor programing because the phone book should be downloaded to the Z120.

 

i think at this point pioneer has a problem and really can care less about fixing it. they have no incentive to fix it. people buy the product, it takes weeks to figure out it is not the person but the equipment that is bad and then it is too late to return it.

 

it really reminds me of the problems i have had with Sony and what they consider warranty issues on their computers. it took my calling the head office to get them to replace parts. but in this case i am not sure what can be done. Rocky said that the problems with VR and BT are there in the Z130 but we are not seeing the discussions because they did not sell that many yet. i think the only answer is to try to get the state to force whomever you bought it from to replace it with a different brand and if enough people do that then maybe pioneer will release an update. but they are so big and have money coming from other product lines, i am not sure they care that much.

[freaksavior]

i had an interesting discussion with Rocky. here is his comments

1. there are no updates to the Z120 and there never will be any. it is a dead product no longer in production.

2. the Z130 while using a different chip has the same VR issues as the Z120.

3. all products are driven not by American consumers but by the Japan office.

My comments

1. blaming the BT for the VR problems makes no sense since the problem also exist in the navigation system.

2. blaming the Sirius tuner for not having the station information for the presets makes no sense since the station information is on the screen and it is poor programing that cannot take the information and stick it in to the preset. if nothing else why not allow the user to type in the station information into the preset?

3. i also told him that mobile is a town in Alabama and not another work for cel phone. the mis-pronunciation of the word by the VR shows that it is wasting programing space trying to sound out a work rather than recognizing the word when there are only a few choices of types of numbers

4. blaming the IPhone that the contacts are not downloaded to the Z120 but need to use BT to look up contacts when using VR again is poor programing because the phone book should be downloaded to the Z120.

 

i think at this point pioneer has a problem and really can care less about fixing it. they have no incentive to fix it. people buy the product, it takes weeks to figure out it is not the person but the equipment that is bad and then it is too late to return it.

 

it really reminds me of the problems i have had with Sony and what they consider warranty issues on their computers. it took my calling the head office to get them to replace parts. but in this case i am not sure what can be done. Rocky said that the problems with VR and BT are there in the Z130 but we are not seeing the discussions because they did not sell that many yet. i think the only answer is to try to get the state to force whomever you bought it from to replace it with a different brand and if enough people do that then maybe pioneer will release an update. but they are so big and have money coming from other product lines, i am not sure they care that much.

 

That's disappointing. I got the unit installed yesterday, called my dad on the way home and he couldn't understand a word I was saying.

[bikermike]

moving the mic to a dead spot out of the area of air movement from the air con and window i think helps. i also think putting a sock over it helps. but there are upgrades to the BT and i am surprised that they don't even want to use those upgrades.