Z1 died -- but it's running fine again

[johnpsc]

Switched the headlights on and off when starting up. May have set the parking brake -- can't remember. Brake light came on and wouldn't turn off. Stopped to run an errand and when I started the car, the Z1 wouldn't come back on.

Circuit City installed the unit and installer stuggled trying to find the VSS wire. It still doesn't work right.

I pulled it out Saturday to paint the trimplate. Was careful putting it back in, but it was tight with the wires behind the unit.

I tried pulling the battery cables and it didn't reset. Dead in the water. :(

[ducatiboy]

Dude, that really sucks. Sorry. At least it's got to be under warranty. But it still sucks. At least Circuit City should be good about switching it out. And the install should be real quick cause you don't have to run all new wires. Sort of a silver lining.

[audiojon]

FYI, if there is any evidence that you pulled the unit out yourself, I don't believe CC will exchange it for a brand new one. They will more likely submit the unit for a warranty repair.

[lowriderman3]

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully they take care of you.

[johnpsc]

Everything's fine. Apparently, fuses were replaced and the Z1 fired right up. The installer took responsibility and my guess is that the wires should have been secured better. He said sliding the unit in and out should not cause a short, which it didn't. The unit ran fine for two days after I slipped it back in after painting the trim.

Also, according to the installer, the brake light connector was pinched when he reinstalled the instrument cluster. Tracking it down, he said he also found a resistor (or diode, I forget which) on the GS400 emergency brake, which he removed. He said that was causing the brake circuit to appear as if it were grounded, which it was not.

After that, he decided to retrace everything -- and I guess making sure there was more than electrical tape securing the wires. In the process, he found a diode (or maybe it was a resistor) in-line on the GS400's VSS line. He said that prevented two-way communication to send the pulse info to the Z1. Important stuff here because he removed it and the Z1 finally is running 3D hybrid tracking with dead reckoning.

Also, he fixed the rear brake connector, which finally works now. :D

So, there were several fundamental wiring issues, in addition to whatever caused the fuses to blow. It was the first Z1 this installer had done, and he doesn't see as many GS400s as he does F150s.

But I have to say CC did the right thing and that's why I paid retail to have them handle it rather than trying to do it myself. And, hey Pioneer, no quibbling from them about it. It's a $2,300 unit and they wanted me happy.

I probably shouldn't say this, but maybe there's a lesson here for Pioneer. Instead of posting here and raising doubts about what CC might or might not do -- with no first-hand information, I might add -- why not a simple PM with a word of support or encouragement to a customer who is excited about your product and spending a bundle with you? Or at least attempt to get more information before speculating publicly.

At the very least, you should be giving the people in the field enough support as they try to install your new, top-of-the-line equipment on every vehicle manufactured. I've seen lots of questions about VSS and similar problems here and you are obviously following some of the dialogue. But I've seen nothing offered by you to solve a problem. The installer told me his documentation on the Lexus was all wrong, and we found the VSS line from a posting on Club Lexus. Has Pioneer set up as much as a BBS for installers to exchange this info behind the scenes? Maybe so, and if so, fine.

Word of mouth sells the high-end stuff and with the Internet, word travels fast.

[lowriderman3]

[quote]I probably shouldn't say this, but maybe there's a lesson here for you guys. Instead of posting here and raising doubts about what CC might or might not do -- with no first-hand information, I might add -- why not a simple PM with a word of support or encouragement to a customer who is excited about your product and spending a bundle with you? Or at least attempt to get more information before speculating publicly.

At the very least, you should be giving the people in the field enough support as they try to install your new, top-of-the-line equipment on every vehicle manufactured. I've seen lots of questions about VSS and similar problems here and you are obviously following some of the dialogue. But I've seen nothing offered by you to solve a problem. The installer told me his documentation on the Lexus was all wrong, and we found the VSS line from a posting on Club Lexus. Has Pioneer set up as much as a BBS for installers to exchange this info behind the scenes? Maybe so, and if so, fine.

Word of mouth sells the high-end stuff and with the Internet, word travels fast.
[/quote]

^^Is that your advice to yourself? You made this post. :roll:

[edrock200]

Awesome that your all fixed up, a quick note though, the line about the diode inline blocking "2-way communication" to the z1 is BS. I don't doubt that he believes what he's telling you, but the z1 does not feed any info back to the cars vss wire, that would be REALLY REALLY bad. The only thing a diode could hurt inline on the vss wire is if it was installed backwards.

Also, the Z1 itself didn't come with any diodes or resistors inline, so are these items he added that he later removed?

[johnpsc]

Thanks. As I understood it, the diode and resistor were in the GS400 lines and had to be removed. No, I didn't mean to imply that these were in the Z1 connectors. This prevented the GS400 from sending the pulse info to the Z1, if I heard correctly. And, the tech said, the diode in the brake circuit caused the Z1 to think its brake wire had been grounded. None of that explained why the brake light stayed on in the Lexus. But after he removed whatever it was, the GS400 brake light went off, he said.

I believe he said the diode was in the GS's brake line and resistor was in the GS's VSS line. But I could have that reversed. And all of it could be BS, but I am inclined to believe it because I know he was frustrated over why the VSS was not sending the pulse info. All we saw before was a slow incrementing of the counter -- about one per half mile driven.

All of this is offered up to point other GS owners to a possible solution to these issues. If you are driving around in "simple hybrid" mode, check the VSS pulse info and if you have slow incrementing, ask your installer to check whether there is a resistor/diode in the GS cables behind the instrument cluster.

[edrock200]

Did your installer remove the diodes/resistors or simply hook up the Z1 wiring before/after the transistors? Hopefully he left them in place but simply tapped into them before their active point in the circuit.

[johnpsc]

Edrock, I'll see if I can get the specifics.

[johnpsc]

Sorry. That was a reference to Pioneer, not the many helpful souls on this site.

[quote name="lowriderman3"] [quote]I probably shouldn't say this, but maybe there's a lesson here for you guys. Instead of posting here and raising doubts about what CC might or might not do -- with no first-hand information, I might add -- why not a simple PM with a word of support or encouragement to a customer who is excited about your product and spending a bundle with you? Or at least attempt to get more information before speculating publicly.

At the very least, you should be giving the people in the field enough support as they try to install your new, top-of-the-line equipment on every vehicle manufactured. I've seen lots of questions about VSS and similar problems here and you are obviously following some of the dialogue. But I've seen nothing offered by you to solve a problem. The installer told me his documentation on the Lexus was all wrong, and we found the VSS line from a posting on Club Lexus. Has Pioneer set up as much as a BBS for installers to exchange this info behind the scenes? Maybe so, and if so, fine.

Word of mouth sells the high-end stuff and with the Internet, word travels fast.
[/quote]

^^Is that your advice to yourself? You made this post. :roll:[/quote]

[johnpsc]

The installer said he removed a resistor on the Z1's VSS and rear brake lines. He said the resistors are marked "Do not remove," but it's what he had to do to get the signal. I expressed concern about it and he said the resistor was there to protect the unit from improperly attaching the wire to a hot wire. He said he checked the wires for voltage with a meter before making the connection. Not sure what to make of that, but that was his explanation.

He did not use the VSS line behind the instrument cluster, but rather in the power steering control unit between the kick panel and the ECU.

Also, he tried a diode on the emergency brake line but pulled it off. I thought removing it made it work as referenced in the earlier post. He said he pinched the wire during installation and the light went off after he cleared the line.

I wouldn't recommend anyone removing the resistors, even though it was the only solution on my GS400. I am sure those more knowledgeable can offer some guidance here.

[05Stang-GT]

There is no resistor on the VSS wire....

[edrock200]

[quote name="johnpsc"]The installer said he removed a resistor on the Z1's VSS and rear brake lines. He said the resistors are marked "Do not remove," but it's what he had to do to get the signal. I expressed concern about it and he said the resistor was there to protect the unit from improperly attaching the wire to a hot wire. He said he checked the wires for voltage with a meter before making the connection. Not sure what to make of that, but that was his explanation.

He did not use the VSS line behind the instrument cluster, but rather in the power steering control unit between the kick panel and the ECU.

Also, he tried a diode on the emergency brake line but pulled it off. I thought removing it made it work as referenced in the earlier post. He said he pinched the wire during installation and the light went off after he cleared the line.

I wouldn't recommend anyone removing the resistors, even though it was the only solution on my GS400. I am sure those more knowledgeable can offer some guidance here.[/quote]

I'm not trying to be negative here, if your unit and your car work right then thats good. However if connecting after the resistor or diodes caused problems he should have just connected before those transistors, that should be the same as removing them altogether as for as the Z1 is concerned.

[johnpsc]

I'm about out of soap on this one. But, he said the resistor was removed at the end of the Z1 wire. I'm confused as to what purpose an isolated resistor would serve at the end of the Z1 wire. No doubt there's something there that's beyond my understanding. Obviously, the resistor was there for a purpose initially. Forgive my ignorance here.