901SoundsofMemphis Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 normally it wouldn't make a diffrence. we could try it... ^^ What about if you disconnect the VSS wire then? That would disable the 3d hybrid right? Link to post Share on other sites
ducatiboy Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 we measured them. we got a 4.88 volt in one empty pin. the brake wire was also the same voltages. Excellent.... Now the rumor was that possibly a resistor was needed for the full bypass. the Z1 needed those pins which were pulled up to 5V normally... they needed to be pulled to ground (shorting them to ground). I don't know where it started, but the rumor was that shorting them to ground was not the answer for the Z2. It's very possible the inputs into the processor are not binary 1 or 0 (high or low, 5V or 0V...etc), it's possible they are a2d measurements. I use stuff like this all the time. If they had an extra a2d pin on the processor, they can read any voltage and do something based on whatever voltage you feed into them. Now did pioneer do this? Don't know, someone needs to test this. Take one of those pins, my gut says the "we got a 4.88 volt in one empty pin" one. Put a resistor between that and ground and measure around the resistor. Start big. 10K maybe down to 1K (ish). I would assume they would be looking for something in the middle. Generally an a2d (analog to digital converter) will turn this value into a decimal number value. They could program the chip to be: When the voltage makes the number 187 appear, do whatever. But they are not accurate in this environment. So they are going to go for a range. I'm assuming they picked a middle range.... or a round numbered resistor value. Like "stick a 1K in there" or something. So I would measure the voltage and aim for 2.5 volts. But the range, if there is one, could be anything. This is just a hunch but I would assume the parking brake is still just grounded. At least this is what I would try first. And mess with resistances on the other pin. They already have a function of the parking brake sense wire with 0V to 12V. Makes me think if they did something funky they would have focused on the "extra pin in connector 2". As far as I know... no one has taken these suggestions and tried them. If I had one I would, but I don't. Also the rumors might be totally off base. But it's easy to try and as far as I know, no one has even tried them. 901SoundsofMemphis, I don't mean to harp on you or try to make you mad... but right now you are the best person I know here who seems knowledgeable enough to test stuff and kind enough to post your progress here as well. Did you try any of this? Just listening to your solution, and thinking what would have needed to be done. Having a switch like that, at best, is a non-optimal solution or not even a solution at all. I would not have spent the time, personally. Knowing what you did and what that took, I would guess that trying what I was talking about (what I learned from rumor) would have taken less time and possibly produced a superior result. People want a bypass. I can't test these personally cause I don't have one. I wasn't planning on buying one, but with all these things to try and no one wants to or seems able to try them... it's making me want to just buy one to mess with. But that will be at least a week till I get it and people who have the skills have them now. We just need to feed them things to try to find the correct solution. Problem with 2 threads, make sure you read this: http://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37687 Link to post Share on other sites
YzRacer Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ok, this bypass thread is more interesting than the others. I have never experienced what you guys are talking about. In aviation most inputs I work with are either discreet on/off or some variable rvdt or lvdt. You are suggesting that this "discreet" may require a specific range instead of on/off? I can check with a friend at work about getting a decade box, I have used them before, but it's unlikely I will get one out of the gate to use at home. Maybe I will get some resisitors this week and give it a shot. Link to post Share on other sites
C6VetteRocks Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ok, this bypass thread is more interesting than the others. I have never experienced what you guys are talking about. In aviation most inputs I work with are either discreet on/off or some variable rvdt or lvdt. You are suggesting that this "discreet" may require a specific range instead of on/off? I can check with a friend at work about getting a decade box, I have used them before, but it's unlikely I will get one out of the gate to use at home. Maybe I will get some resisitors this week and give it a shot. Might I offer a simpler suggestion. Go to Radio Shack and purchase a Linear Taper Potentiometer, 1M-Ohm Catalog #: 271-211 or 100K-Ohm Catalog #: 271-092, and use that to determine if resistor is needed and find the correct value. Also, you might want to check the pins, if any, that are at 0V. Are they shorted to ground or are the near 0v. Pioneer might have went the other way and have an input looking for a “high†as compared to a “lowâ€. As I’m sure both of you know simply putting one end of the pot to ground and the other to 12V using the tap for the pin under test will allow you to either pull the pin “up†or “down using the same device. Even at 100K the current is 0.12ma way below the wattage rating of the pot. Sorry this is the only help I can offer, but I don’t have the resources for this one. I’m having enough trouble reverse engineering how to make the GM AM/FM diversity antenna, which I will post information for, work with my Z1. Thank you both for your diligence and work Link to post Share on other sites
brandon Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 It'd be great if we could get ONE thread for this in just ONE forum instead of friggin 3. Two in one forum and one in anther..... Anyway, in case you guys didnt see this one, this is pretty interesting. http://www.avic411.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 4&start=15 Hack the HD, change a file, do the newest bypass (grounding the parking break right?) and then possibly have an answer? This sounds promising. Link to post Share on other sites
ducatiboy Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I know, I know... I'm a mod here and I have let them go how ever they have gone. I could merge them into one or move them into the hacks section, but I have been lazy and haven't done it. Sorry. I know (or at least from what people have posted it seems) that if you want to take your new Z2 and overwrite it with all Z1 software and maps and all, then the bypass will work. The hope is that we might be able to find the 1 or 2 files needed to change on the Z2 hard drive... most likely just copied from a Z1 which will re-enable the old school backup. If someone wanted to be real adventurous and reverse engineer the CD installation method, you could create a CD which would update these files without unlocking the drive and hooking it to a pc which would make 1000's of people very happy. But this is a pipe dream, don't get your hopes up. Link to post Share on other sites
brandon Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 DB, if I werent friggin half a dozen states away, I'd let you experiment on my new z2. Which gets installed tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
redbone1 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Has anyone seen a schematic/service manual? Might offer some clues. If the map updates for the Z1 updates the Z1 to a Z2 and the bypass stops working (which I thought I had read on here that someone did that to their Z1 and the bypass became non-functional??), then perhaps those 4 empty pins on the right hand side of the connector are the output of a flash PROM (or something similar), which means that it's a matter of finding the right combination of digital word by grounding a combination of those 4 pins - if this continues to be a firmware/software defeat to accomplish the by-pass. Since it seems there is no hardware change, the grounding of the parking brake should still be required - so that's a variable that would remain constant. Worse case, the software/firmware in the upgrade flash from Z1 to Z2 was modified to not allow a by-pass, regardless. Which means I will never update my Z1 maps?! Link to post Share on other sites
ducatiboy Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 I have something I want to verify. I don't know if this works, I don't have a Z2 at my disposal at this moment to try it, but I'm asking people to see if they could test something for me. I haven't tried this but I just got this message. It's from a friend of a friend of a friend, who is an insider at Pioneer. Long story but I have gotten some good stuff from him in the past. Anyway, I have been poking him for bypass information and he just sent me: ground the empty pin in the RCA harness (connector 1) and the parking brake I don't even know if there is an empty slot on connector 1. If so, then measure the voltage on that pin inside there when it's powered on, if it's 5V, sounds like it's worth a try. Link to post Share on other sites
JasonH Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 How about we continue this discussion in the Hacks/Mods post: http://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5420 Link to post Share on other sites
ducatiboy Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 No problem, two of these was getting annoying. Also I'm locking this one so people can focus on the other one. Link to post Share on other sites
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