Hey Folks,

I'm sorry if you've seen a lot of these threads, but I need some advice. I'm debating between the D3 and Z2 and wanted to get some feedback. Let me list my priorities:

1. Ipod functionality (ALWAYS using iPod), but I don't care about video

2. Bluetooth functionality (sometimes will use BT, once a day for sure)

3. Navigation (use this about 1 a week)

4. Overall aesthetics.. I want this unit to look pretty. (I'm mostly talking about the UI and how the navi looks)

I would say that sound quality is the highest, but these units are both about the same on SQ, and I will be using an external DSP anyways. Right now I have a PPI DCX-730 but will probably move to an Alpine H701, and since neither of these units have an optical out, it won't matter.

I would get the Alpine W205/Blackbird combo because it gives me all the great SQ options I need, but I REALLY hate the way it's interface looks. So right now I'm thinking the best compromise is to get either a D3 or a Z2 and use an external processor.

I'm leaning towards the D3, here's why. Pro's and cons of the D3:

+ Volume Knob! (I change the volume better)

+ Faster iPod connection

+ Better BT? (Read this from luring on the web, can anyone elaborate?)

+ Can match colors

- Z2 has voice recognition, D3 doesn't

- Navi on Z2 is much better looking

- Navi on Z2 routes faster

- Smaller screen than Z2

I guess my questions are around how is the iPod interface better on the D3, and how is the BT better. Those two + having a volume knob pretty much will seal the deal for me it looks like, unless the D3 navi is significantly worse than the Z2.

Right now for Navi I use a Tom Tom and pull it out about once a week, so it's not the biggest priority, but it's nice to have. Can anyone speak to what it will be like going from a Tom Tom to the D3? It seems like the Z2 will be an upgrade, but the D3 might be a bit of a downgrade in respect to Navi, but I don't know for sure..

Is there a D4 coming out soon that I should wait for instead?

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, and I did spend a good amount of time persuing through the forums to try and get my questions answered in advance..

(For example, I know I will need some additional software to get my Treo 750 to work )

Also, feel free to suggest alternatives to the D3 and Z2.

If I don't go with a navi unit, I'm thinking about the Pioneer DEH-P980BT HU since it gives me iPod + BT and decent SQ features (I will still use my external processor), and then I'd just stick with my Tom Tom..

Your write-up looks correct except for one part where you say the Z2 has the smaller screen, where its the opposite.

As for ipod functionality, the D3 uses the new direct cable where the Z2 uses the old adaptor. The D3 ipod interface responds MUCH faster to commands than the Z2. Nothing is is fast as an ipod, but its there is a huge difference between the two. The menu is also slightly more user friendly.

For bluetooth, the Z2 uses the NDBT1 adaptor that is now 2 years old with no update. The D3 uses the CDBTB200 which is 2nd generation. Because of that, the D3 has less echo problems and works properly with many more phone models. It also supports bluetooth audio if your phone supports it.

The nav on the D3 and the Z2 isn't as different as you think. Add a couple more viewing modes to the D3 and most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Sounds to me like you want a D3 from your list of priorities.

P.S. The DEHP980BT has the same shitty bluetooth built-in that the Z-series uses. If you want a CD player with bluetooth, go down to the 790BT, its newer and the bluetooth works better

Thanks for the input. Yes I meant that a con of the D3 is that it has a smaller screen than the Z2.

Really! So the 980BT has the same crappy BT? That sucks.

The biggest reason I'm upgrading to a new HU is for BT functionality.

How about the FH-P800BT? Can you comment on that unit's BT functionality? I really like how it has a "Passenger Control Mode" and the description makes it sound like it has better echo/noise cancellation.

Does the Avic D3 support file search on the iPod?

I saw the FHP800BT at CES. It looks tight! No idea on how well the bluetooth works though, it was just in a display and I didn't bother to sync up my phone. I can only assume its as good or better than the bluetooth in the DEHP790BT.

The D3 doesn't do alphabet search. It seemed real slow on the 800BT anyway so not sure how much I would actually use it

If navigation matters to you, just stay away from Pioneer all together. Go read some of the posts in the troubleshooting forum. For some people, the navigation on these units is totally useless, and you will end up buying a Garmin or TomTom because you will loose all trust in the Pioneer. I think it all depends on the area you are in, however it has nothing to do with the mapping data, but rather the algorithm. Whoever wrote it was on crack. I think it's ok in the city, but totally off the wall in rural areas (where i live).

I can always keep my TomTom, I got it for pretty cheap.

Navigation matters to me somewhat: I lived in California all my life and I just moved to Seattle about 4 months ago, so the area is pretty new to me. I've been reading some of the threads about how the Pioneer navigation algorithm sucks... so I'm having second thoughts about the D3 now, and looking more at the FHP800BT since it seems to have superior iPod and Bluetooth functionality...

I can always keep my TomTom, I got it for pretty cheap.

 

Navigation matters to me somewhat: I lived in California all my life and I just moved to Seattle about 4 months ago, so the area is pretty new to me. .

Welcome to Seattle! I've lived in Seattle for a while now, and the Navigation with the Z2 works great.

If you hit the downtown Seattle/ University of Washington campus area, the mapping is detailed style city mapping so its nice.

Bluetooth is good but not great= the reason why I gave it a standard score is because the person on the other line says they cannot hear me as well as they should. Sounds audible but distant.

I bought the Z1/Z2 because of the Harddrive. After seeing the DVD based Navi's and seeing how long route calculations take, I love the fast response from the Z2 hardddrive.

 

Welcome to Seattle! I've lived in Seattle for a while now, and the Navigation with the Z2 works great.

 

If you hit the downtown Seattle/ University of Washington campus area, the mapping is detailed style city mapping so its nice.

 

Bluetooth is good but not great= the reason why I gave it a standard score is because the person on the other line says they cannot hear me as well as they should. Sounds audible but distant.

 

I bought the Z1/Z2 because of the Harddrive. After seeing the DVD based Navi's and seeing how long route calculations take, I love the fast response from the Z2 hardddrive.

Thanks! Any word on how it is in the Redmond/Bellevue area? I live in Belltown but commute to Redmond everyday, and I still don't know much about this area.

The BT might be a deal killer for me on the Z2.. I'll have to try it out I guess and see.

How does the nav hold up in random areas like Renton, Kirkland, etc?

Also, did you buy your unit locally? If so, I'd love to get a reccomendation on where to buy. I'd rather buy dealer authorized..

I think I would really give the Bluetooth 3.9 out of 5 score. Which is not bad.

You know when you call someone and you can just tell they are on Bluetooth? You can hear them but it sounds different.

Thats what my callers are saying so, its fine.

I've tried the unit in Bellevue, Renton, and Issaquah, and it works great. I haven't been to Redmond in a while. (Although my friends work at MICROSOFT).

For buying the unit, amazon.com is a good place to buy. But for finding a place to install, you should be very picky.

FYI, I-405 as you probably found out has alot of traffic so your Z2 should keep you entertained!

First off I would also like to welcome you to Seattle. Hope you like the weird ass weather we have.

Isn't it funny though? I have a D3 with the BTB-200 and I can't complain at all. It is works flawlessly as far as call quality. I also have the iPod connection which I would prefer to be a little easier to use as far as searching but I am cool with leaving it on random play and just going with the flow. Or I use playlists for particular moods and random play those also.

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BUT....if usable/accurate Navi is one of your criteria for purchasing a unit I would steer way the hell away from the D3. I hate to say that but as you have read it is pretty much awful...."turn left, do a u-turn, turn left again, you are now back where I told you to turn left in the first place.....consider yourself lucky I did not make you drive 3 miles then u-turn". I did not buy it for the navi so I am ok for the most part. I pretty much use the navi to search for addresses/locations and phone numbers, kinda like a database. But then I know the area for the most part. My wife's Garmin is far better and alot easier to use.

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I also feel for you on your commute. YOW!! Sounds like you need to move to the Eastside, especially if the all knowing state govt. slaps a toll booth on 520.

So is the Navi on the Z2 far more accurate than the D3, or are all Pioneer navigation units a victim of that problem?

Yeah I work at Microsoft as well, hence the commute. I probably won't be moving to the east side anytime soon. I prefer to live in the city and be able to walk everywhere when I'm going out etc.

I'll probably do the installation myself, I do all my own work, all I really need to do is fab a good trim piece. Actually, I might have to get it installed by someone else because I don't have any tools out here. Well a few, but certainly not wood working tools.

Thanks for the feedback on the bluetooth functionality djmixmac, and thanks toytaco for more info on the D3 navi functionality.

I guess I'm going to have to wait on my decision.. if the FHP800BT has much better iPod functionality like the Pioneer website claims, that might be the way to go.

I think I'd rather not have nav then have a crappy nav. It would piss me off too much if it told me to do random turns like that..

I LOVE my pioneer units it started with my n1 then I got a z2 very nice unit but seams like it could have had more thought and now I have a d3 only down side is the need to have the DVD for nav but ipod is much better screen size really doesn’t seam noticeably different when installed I cant stand those portable units they have me drive in circles and strange routs I had garmins and a tom tom brand and trashed em but I think the d3 would be the smarter choice until they update the z series

Pioneer's image from the Z2 shows a pretty cool map view -- is this same view available in the D3, or is the attached image something you'd see only on the Z2?

Pioneer's image from the Z2 shows a pretty cool map view -- is this same view available in the D3, or is the attached image something you'd see only on the Z2?

Z2 only

I have both & I realy like the D3 with the Ipod but I love having the Bigger screen the Z2 has.

By what questions you have asked I would say the D3 would be a better choice on the Ipod,bluetooth.

As far as better lay out The Z2 takes the cake on that IMO.

joe r