Do all the navigation/radios have the inconveniences of the Pioneers-- the warning screens that require pushing a "Lawyer Button" to get to the nav, and complicated bypasses to use them without parking? Ah, but also have the really great nav features of the AVICS, even though the map data has plenty of errors? Are they all as expensive to upgrade maps as the Pioneers (or is there an, ahem, "economical" upgrade like the 'backup' disks sold for the N series).

The flip screen N2 has to go (it blocks the main AC vent, not tolerable on a 100-plus degree day down South) for a double din, probably a Z2 or Z3.

So it's heresy to even think about a different brand, but do they all have the irritating safeties and the ridiculously expensive map upgrades? What would you try on a do-over?

id assume all nav units have the warning to avoid a lawsuit. if you have a unit that has no warnings and you get injured in an accident, you can sue that company nowadays for not having a warning

you hear about those lawsuits against mcdonalds?

1. a woman got a coffee from mcdonalds, spilled it on herself and got minor burns, then sued mcdonalds because the lids didnt say "caution:hot". she won.

2. another woman (an obese one) sued mcdonalds because she was fat. she won.

you see where i'm going with this?

Yes, all Nav have the "Lawyer" clause.I have an Eclipse & recently bought the 360 Garmin for my other car and it has the clause also.Price to update the Eclipse map is 350.00,for the Garmin free when you buy it until 30 days thereafter from 80.00 - 140.00 depends on the model you bought.

Looks like the update price isn't so bad--comparably speaking, of course.

One known factor is the ease of use of the navigation software and the multiple routes. Can't imagine anything else could be better.

Are disks for updating the Z maps available on the forum?

Thanks guys,

Jim

Yes, you can buy a new hard drive to update a Z1 or Z2 to the latest Z3 maps. You can also do it yourself for as low as $4.95, but you need to at least a little bit computer savvy to pull that off and some time to download it. Search around, you'll find the links.

Yes, all navigation systems have the annoying warning screens, at least ones designed for the US market.

Yes, they all require a bypass to function without the p-brake set, but I think only Pioneer's is as complicated. JVC only requires the p-brake to be grounded and I think Kenwood is the same way. Only Pioneer requires switching one wire to another location and grounding both that and the p-brake wire. At least that is a lot easier than the original Z1, so Pioneer seems to be getting better in that regards.

I have read the map errors are due to TeleAtlas maps not being that great, and Pioneer has a partnership with TeleAtlas. Systems using NavTeq are suppose to be a lot more reliable. That would include Kenwood, JVC, and Alpine.

All good to know, guys! Can't imagine how anyone could own one of these things without the Forum!!