Pre July Unit or Post July Unit — AVIC411 Forum Archive

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 00:54 UTC#1

I ran out and bought a second AVIC Z1 with an April date when it was determined that the July units could not be bypassed.

Now that the July units can be bypassed in an even easier fashion (just grounding a wire) I wonder what unit would be better, April/July?

The pre July units could be disabled with a software upgrade?

The post July units are bypassed physically and have a less of a chance being affected with a software upgrade?

What are your thoughts on this?

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 01:08 UTC#2

Well, in reality, it does not matter. It is all an issue of how much you want to tinker with your Z1. With the Pre-July releases (assuming the flash technique works), you can just flash your lights and your done. Steve has been nice enough to point out that you do not need to buy his Circuit. For post July units (unable to flash), you just need to ground a wire. It has also been pointed out that grounding the special wire will work with PreJuly units as well. The issue then becomes how much are you willing to tap wires and plug and unplug connectors. This question can only be answered by YOU...no forum in the world can help you with that. Good luck.

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 01:09 UTC#3

drober30 said:
I ran out and bought a second AVIC Z1 with an April date when it was determined that the July units could not be bypassed.

Sorry about that. I don't know if it was determined that they could not be bypassed. We did know they couldn't be bypassed with my circuit... it just took a little time to figure out what it took for the new July units.

drober30 said:

Now that the July units can be bypassed in an even easier fashion (just grounding a wire) I wonder what unit would be better, April/July?

Actually it's grounding 2 wires.
http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html

What would be better? I would say that the July 06 unit bypass is "better". There are a couple things that would constitute as "better".

1. What is bypassed?
2. What is more reliable?

Well the stuff that is bypassed is exactly the same on both. It's not like 1/2 the stuff is bypassed with one while everything is bypassed with the other. The end result of the bypassing results in the same exact unit.

So we are only left with "better" referring to what is more reliable. And I would have to say that the new bypass with grounding the 2 wires is more reliable. Not cause I have no confidence in my circuits, but because they have processors, software, and a dozen components. All this to make it as easy as possible to install. Every single part has a failure rate and a possibility of failure. I tried to minimize this as much as possible when I designed it, but the fact remains all those parts have more of a possibility of failure (how ever remote) than 2 wires do.

So better? I would have to say that the new July units are better.

drober30 said:

The pre July units could be disabled with a software upgrade?

It's possible, any thing is possible. I don't know what "features" or components of the Z1 can be updated with a software upgrade. I can't say for sure what can and can not be upgraded with the Z1.

drober30 said:

The post July units are bypassed physically and have a less of a chance being affected with a software upgrade?

What are your thoughts on this?

I can tell you one thing though. If the Pre-July units (headlight flasher) bypass can be disabled with a software update then so can the July 06 (ground 2 wires). Both of these were put in on purpose. They took out the headlight flashing software and put in the 2 wire grounded check. They can make a change going forward.

My belief is that the software upgrades is for the hard drive, not flashing the micro on the fly while the unit is installed. This bypass is handled by the unit not the software in the hard drive, I think that is just data. So I am guessing that neither will be "updated" away. But that's just my thoughts with no real knowledge on how the Z1 is engineered or what the engineers at Pioneer have up their sleve over the next few years.

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 01:12 UTC#4

bongus said:
It has also been pointed out that grounding the special wire will work with PreJuly units as well.

It this true? I tried this very thing with me preJuly unit and grounding the wires DOES NOT work with mine.

I don't know if I have a special one or something. Maybe they added that in later. I have a March 06 unit and it did not work. I swapped out the March and July units back and fourth twice and my March 06 unit is only bypassable with the flasher (or manually flashing the lights).

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 01:19 UTC#5

ducatiboy said:
It this true? I tried this very thing with me preJuly unit and grounding the wires DOES NOT work with mine.

As much as I would love to stay in business selling circuits, I do tell people and make the reference that you need my circuit (or you have to manually flash your lights) on my web site and ebay auction. If it's not true and you can bypass the old units with just two wires I want to at least change my web site to tell people it might be an option, even for the old units. Just cause it didn't work on mine, doesn't mean that someone might have a May unit which does work.

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 01:36 UTC#6

ducatiboy said:

drober30 said:
I ran out and bought a second AVIC Z1 with an April date when it was determined that the July units could not be bypassed.

Sorry about that. I don't know if it was determined that they could not be bypassed. We did know they couldn't be bypassed with my circuit... it just took a little time to figure out what it took for the new July units.

drober30 said:

Now that the July units can be bypassed in an even easier fashion (just grounding a wire) I wonder what unit would be better, April/July?

Actually it's grounding 2 wires.
http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html

What would be better? I would say that the July 06 unit bypass is "better". There are a couple things that would constitute as "better".

1. What is bypassed?
2. What is more reliable?

Well the stuff that is bypassed is exactly the same on both. It's not like 1/2 the stuff is bypassed with one while everything is bypassed with the other. The end result of the bypassing results in the same exact unit.

So we are only left with "better" referring to what is more reliable. And I would have to say that the new bypass with grounding the 2 wires is more reliable. Not cause I have no confidence in my circuits, but because they have processors, software, and a dozen components. All this to make it as easy as possible to install. Every single part has a failure rate and a possibility of failure. I tried to minimize this as much as possible when I designed it, but the fact remains all those parts have more of a possibility of failure (how ever remote) than 2 wires do.

So better? I would have to say that the new July units are better.

drober30 said:

The pre July units could be disabled with a software upgrade?

It's possible, any thing is possible. I don't know what "features" or components of the Z1 can be updated with a software upgrade. I can't say for sure what can and can not be upgraded with the Z1.

drober30 said:

The post July units are bypassed physically and have a less of a chance being affected with a software upgrade?

What are your thoughts on this?

I can tell you one thing though. If the Pre-July units (headlight flasher) bypass can be disabled with a software update then so can the July 06 (ground 2 wires). Both of these were put in on purpose. They took out the headlight flashing software and put in the 2 wire grounded check. They can make a change going forward.

My belief is that the software upgrades is for the hard drive, not flashing the micro on the fly while the unit is installed. This bypass is handled by the unit not the software in the hard drive, I think that is just data. So I am guessing that neither will be "updated" away. But that's just my thoughts with no real knowledge on how the Z1 is engineered or what the engineers at Pioneer have up their sleve over the next few years.

DB,
I still have 5 days to return my unit to CC which I'm going to do.

Everything you stated is right in line with what I was thinking.

I know with the Alpine units that once you put in an upgrade DVD that you could not use the older DVD again and I can’t recall for certain but I really think that it flashed the firmware to add enhancements or fix bugs.

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 01:43 UTC#7

drober30 said:

DB,
I still have 5 days to return my unit to CC which I'm going to do.

Everything you stated is right in line with what I was thinking.

I know with the Alpine units that once you put in an upgrade DVD that you could not use the older DVD again and I can’t recall for certain but I really think that it flashed the firmware to add enhancements or fix bugs.

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

You are welcome but all that said, the old units and the flasher bypass is not really that bad. It's been proven very reliable. It doesn't alter the Z1 at all and it even gives you a couple other possibilities where to hook to your car's ILL wire (I programmed my circuit to work off most dimmer wires as well).

Pioneer kept a bypass in the units. I'm assuming that the reason they stopped the flasher was cause you can install the unit exactly like they said, and still accidentally watch DVD's while moving (if you happen to turn on the headlights at the right time). So they made it something that you purposly have to modify in order to do this, but they took out something and put something else in. They want to have a bypass, it sells units. But they want to make it something that you can't stumble into accidentally. You have to modify their wiring harness to do it.

I don't know if it's worth returning your April unit to get a July unit, it will save you $35 for my circuit. But having an older unit with a flasher for the bypass is not really that bad. My circuit is less reliable, but only slightly.

If you want to trade the unit in for another brand, that's fine. But going through the hassle for getting a newer unit doesn't seem like it's worth it to me.

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 02:22 UTC#8

ducatiboy said:

drober30 said:

DB,
I still have 5 days to return my unit to CC which I'm going to do.

Everything you stated is right in line with what I was thinking.

I know with the Alpine units that once you put in an upgrade DVD that you could not use the older DVD again and I can’t recall for certain but I really think that it flashed the firmware to add enhancements or fix bugs.

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

You are welcome but all that said, the old units and the flasher bypass is not really that bad. It's been proven very reliable. It doesn't alter the Z1 at all and it even gives you a couple other possibilities where to hook to your car's ILL wire (I programmed my circuit to work off most dimmer wires as well).

Pioneer kept a bypass in the units. I'm assuming that the reason they stopped the flasher was cause you can install the unit exactly like they said, and still accidentally watch DVD's while moving (if you happen to turn on the headlights at the right time). So they made it something that you purposly have to modify in order to do this, but they took out something and put something else in. They want to have a bypass, it sells units. But they want to make it something that you can't stumble into accidentally. You have to modify their wiring harness to do it.

I don't know if it's worth returning your April unit to get a July unit, it will save you $35 for my circuit. But having an older unit with a flasher for the bypass is not really that bad. My circuit is less reliable, but only slightly.

If you want to trade the unit in for another brand, that's fine. But going through the hassle for getting a newer unit doesn't seem like it's worth it to me.

I have to agree with you again, however, I'm returning the unit because I went and bought it on my CC card interest free for 12 months to have another bypassed unit. Now that I don’t really need to worry about the manufactured date I will pick another unit up later.

I guess my question really revolved around Pioneer disabling the flashing technique in units already out there for the reasons you stated (people can bypass the units without altering them). The question is will they/can they?

I'm new to Pioneer but my understanding is the grounding of the wire is what has been used on all their previous models? If so seems like a safer bet they will leave it alone.

Posted Aug 30, 2006 · 03:01 UTC#9

drober30 said:
I guess my question really revolved around Pioneer disabling the flashing technique in units already out there for the reasons you stated (people can bypass the units without altering them). The question is will they/can they?

I'm new to Pioneer but my understanding is the grounding of the wire is what has been used on all their previous models? If so seems like a safer bet they will leave it alone.

Unless a pioneer engineer or executive gets on here to answer such a question and I doubt they would, no one here will be able to give you anthing more than a gut feeling.

It's true that we already know that they don't want the flashing out there, they made this change on purpose. They didn't do it cause they were board. They wanted this gone, but they added another bypass. I would hope that if that it's even possible (and no one knows for sure) to upgrade the old Z1's so that the flashing does not work, that they would enable the 2 wire ground. One would hope anyway. But I don't know and I don't know if anyone else really does either.

Posted Aug 31, 2006 · 17:07 UTC#10

Just wanted to drop a quick note here. I've been using ducatis flash circuit since the first batch (how long now DB?) and it works absolutely flawlessly every single time. I've never had it fail to bypass my unit. The unit just works as it should. I'm in total agreement that grounding two wires is easier. I just wanted to say that the circuit works in a plug and play fashion without any issues.

Posted Aug 31, 2006 · 20:47 UTC#11

wishbone said:
Just wanted to drop a quick note here. I've been using ducatis flash circuit since the first batch (how long now DB?) and it works absolutely flawlessly every single time. I've never had it fail to bypass my unit. The unit just works as it should. I'm in total agreement that grounding two wires is easier. I just wanted to say that the circuit works in a plug and play fashion without any issues.

While I've only had my Z1 for a couple of weeks now, DB's circuit not only works every time but in my car ('06 Explorer) there is an added benefit. I left my parking brake wire connected. The '06 Ford uses CAN bus (an industrial network) for intermodule communications; it doesn' t pass discrete wires all over the car anymore. As a result there is a slight delay between starting the car and the parking brake signal being driven. So even though the parking brake wire is connected to my Z1 as long as I release the parking brake within a few seconds of starting the car the DB circuit still bypasses the lockout.

So why is this important to me? Simple. In normal operation my Z1 has the lockout bypassed just as I like it. But, say Barney Fife (I live in New England and cops up here live to give out tickets) pulls me over for having a video screen in the driver's view. Well, if I put on my parking brake when Barney pulls me over that will cause the Z1 to go back into lockout mode, and stay there until I shut off the car and start it again. So if Barney claims I have video while driving I can show him that video is locked out just by putting the car into drive.

I like that.

Posted Sep 07, 2006 · 21:39 UTC#12

as i read the link above. ducati boy said he used the brown mute wire to ground. do you still need that wire for the blue tooth cell phone setup or is that not needed anymore?

Posted Sep 07, 2006 · 22:10 UTC#13

949 said:
as i read the link above. ducati boy said he used the brown mute wire to ground. do you still need that wire for the blue tooth cell phone setup or is that not needed anymore?

I don't remember what color it was but yes, I took the "cell phone mute" wire out and moved it. If you use the built in bluetooth of the Z1, you don't need it, you only need it if you install an aftermarket cell phone interface (or use it to mute the stereo when your backup sensor goes off).

Posted Sep 22, 2006 · 22:04 UTC#14

Mute wire is also used for vehicles equipped with Onstar to mute the radio when calling Onstar, or using Onstar's phone system via Verizon Wireless.