I have been wanted to upgrade the head unit in my car to a full screen unit with navigation, IPOD controls, bluetooth for my phone, and Sirius (I already have a subscription).

The Pioneer F series seemed perfect. I don't care about DVD, so the F700 was fine, but spending more for the F900 or F90 was okay.

I was ready to go until I read this forum... I'm afraid you may have talked me out of the Pioneer.

It seems like the things lacking on the Pioneer are things that are important to me and would drive me nuts. Here are things I've read that would keep me from purchasing the unit. Please let me know if they are overstated.

Startup time - Probably the least important issue to me, but I already think my current unit takes long, and its about 30 seconds.

GPS map orientation - I've read that you cannot orient the GPS map so that the direction you're travelling is always pointing to the top. I've never seen a navigation system without the ability to have the map rotate for this orientation.

Sirius Displays - I've read that the information displayed for Sirius radio is poor. On my current single din kenwood, I can see three lines and they are configurable. I don't want to go backward in functionality.

Bluetooth reliability - I've read a lot about bluetooth phone disconnects. I have a Blackeberry 8830. One of the things I was looking forward to was being able to have it easily and reliably connect. I'll make business calls on it, and have to count on it working.

Other things I've read are not really a big deal for me, but these are the important ones.

I'd appreciate feedback. I have been looking at the Kenwood units as well, but they are more expensive and I've heard the displays are less appealing.

Thank you,

Jack

Jack,

I have had the F90 for about a month now. I have it installed in a Tacoma pickup. My other car is a 2006 BMW 530 with bluetooth, Sirius, 7 channel amp, etc. Here are a few of my observations.

Startup time - it's slow but so is my bimmer. Music starts to play in about 15 seconds so it's only a big deal if you want to jump in and set a destination, etc. I have heard the next SW release will cut start up time in half. Like you, it is the least of my worries.

Nav - you can set nav to point in the direction of travel in 3D mode. You just can't set it in 2D or "overhead" mode. I am sure this should get fixed in the next SW release in Oct.

BT - I have an Iphone and the BT works great. I have heard of problems with blackberry's but other can comment on that.

Sirius display - OK this does suck. My 3 year old BMW is much better. I transferred my Sirius subscription from my other car. If I had to do it over again, I would call Sirius and see what it would cost to convert to XM (since they are both owned by the same company). I understand the XM display is much better and the XM module is actually cheaper!

Net/net I might have gone with the Kenwood if I had done more research. But in the end, I think 90% of the problems with the Pioneer are software related and will get fixed over the next few months. I bought an Iphone a year ago and it is A LOT better now through SW fixes. I think the F series will go the same way.

All in all, I am happy with the unit after a month.

I too have had a 90 for about three weeks. I sometimes debate exchanging it for a kenwood unit but there are too many things I like. Your concerns:

Boot time: Well, it's not instant on. ON the other hand, the Tom-Tom I used to use took a little while to get itself going. It is about 15 seconds to music, 30 seconds to full use, maybe a minute at the longest for me.

Nav Orientated North: Previous answer says it all.

Sirrius: Don't use it

Bluetooth: I also have a blackberry although a different model. When it works, it works great but it drops and reconnects all the time. Like so many others, I am hoping for a fix to this on the next update. This is a deal breaker for me.

IPod: Drops connection too frequently for my taste. Usually once per use but I find it really annoying.

Other Stuff: For me the main features over the Kenwood were the ability to control the unit by voice. I was also very intrigued by the MSN capability and it has already saved me time by alerting me to freeway closures. The price was a consideration for me as the Pioneer is somewhat less expensive than the kenwood units. Lastly, I believe this unit is incredibly customizable. I have not done too many of the adjustments yet because I do not want to do all the work to have the new update trash it all. However, I think after the next update, the ability to customize this unit will really come to life

Final Thought: If you can delay your purchase a week or two, the rumors are that the next update may be out by then. If they fix the main issues, IE: Bluetooth, IPOD disconnecting, and to a lesser degree boot time, I will be pretty happy and think you will find it to be a great unit for the price.

Don

Jack.

I bought this unit within a week of its release.This unit has come a long way since then

Startup: FULL functionality after 30-45 seconds, depends on which UI has to be loaded up. Music time will depends on the source that is starting up. CD is playing within 5 seconds where iPod takes 10-15. I dont use the radio or satellite so I can't comment.

Map: Only sucks if you prefer overhead view over 3d.

Sirius: Can't comment

BB compatible: cant comment but the new update is supposed to be bluetooth/ boot time focused, so it may be fixed

iPod: Doesn't fail for me anymore, so no problems there

Other things: This unit unlike the Kenwood or JVC or alpine, or whatever, is customizable. Whether that interests you or not is up to you, but it's what stopped me from selling it. If your car is a stick you will very much appreciate the voice commands. nothings more of a pain in the ass than trying to navigate through the ipod while shifting. If its an AT, it's still pretty nifty. My suggestion to you, like the post before me, is wait on your decision to see what the update does. You seem to have an interest in the F series and it would suck if you didnt buy it, then a couple weeks later your deal-breakers were fixed.

Funny, I'm also considering the F-series (700BT to be precise) and have also had concerns over the apparent instability of the UI. However, I'm willing to stick around and see what happens with the next firmware update because there is no other nav unit on the market that offers such an ideal mix of features for the price (the comparable Kenwood DNX5120 unit adds DVD playback but the BT unit is a $200 addition).

However, a couple of things still concern me about the Pioneer from my limited time playing with them in stores and they're related to the screen.

The screen generally seems far less contrasty than kenwood screens, which could prove problematic in bright sun (I live in CA). I could find no adjustments other than brightness, which did nothing to make it any less washed out.

I also noticed that touch sensitivity is not as nice as the Kenwoods -- I found myself having to stab the sceen quite hard with my finger to get a resonse. I know there is a stylus provided but who is gonna use a stylus in the thick of things? I know I won't. Can touch sensitivity be adjusted? I couldn't find anything in the setup, and I was getting frustrated even standing there in Best Buy trying to operate the unit. Not a good sign.

Any comments on the screen issues?

Funny, I'm also considering the F-series (700BT to be precise) and have also had concerns over the apparent instability of the UI. However, I'm willing to stick around and see what happens with the next firmware update because there is no other nav unit on the market that offers such an ideal mix of features for the price (the comparable Kenwood DNX5120 unit adds DVD playback but the BT unit is a $200 addition).

 

However, a couple of things still concern me about the Pioneer from my limited time playing with them in stores and they're related to the screen.

 

The screen generally seems far less contrasty than kenwood screens, which could prove problematic in bright sun (I live in CA). I could find no adjustments other than brightness, which did nothing to make it any less washed out.

 

I also noticed that touch sensitivity is not as nice as the Kenwoods -- I found myself having to stab the sceen quite hard with my finger to get a resonse. I know there is a stylus provided but who is gonna use a stylus in the thick of things? I know I won't. Can touch sensitivity be adjusted? I couldn't find anything in the setup, and I was getting frustrated even standing there in Best Buy trying to operate the unit. Not a good sign.

 

Any comments on the screen issues?

Hi, I was in the same situation you are in i went to best buy to play with both of these head units. the f series looks great but the functionality was not great at all so I went to play with the kenwood dnx5120 and it blew me away. people have been saying that the UI is ugly. i will say it is ugly when you are looking at it on youtube or from pictures but in person its a different story it actually looks better IMO . the nav is just perfect compared to the f series, the voice guidance is so smooth pronouncing all the street names and all the POI that was not on the f are on the dnx.

I picked up my dnx5120 for 619 shipped on ebay and they also have the bluetooth and ipod cable for 129 shpped

If I can get the BT for the kenwood unit for close to $100 that might sell me, especially since it's a Parrot unit so is probably gonna be better than the built-in Pioneer BT system. What ebay seller did you buy from? (PM me).

Interestingly, BT piece in F-series is a Parrot as well...

I also noticed that touch sensitivity is not as nice as the Kenwoods -- I found myself having to stab the sceen quite hard with my finger to get a resonse. I know there is a stylus provided but who is gonna use a stylus in the thick of things? I know I won't. Can touch sensitivity be adjusted? I couldn't find anything in the setup, and I was getting frustrated even standing there in Best Buy trying to operate the unit. Not a good sign.

 

Any comments on the screen issues?

I had the same problem until I calibrated the screen. Its still not perfect but much better then when I first powered on the unit.

Interestingly, BT piece in F-series is a Parrot as well...

Good to know!

Yeah... It is also software upgradeable (not to imply that Pioneer will upgrade it, but it is possible)...

FWIW BT in А-90 works much better with my SCH-i760 than the stock Audi adapter did.

Also, navigation software itself, iGO8, pretty much blows anything else on the market out of the water... assuming you spend time to customize it. Audio software on the unit is rather irritating, though...

Also, navigation software itself, iGO8, pretty much blows anything else on the market out of the water... assuming you spend time to customize it. Audio software on the unit is rather irritating, though...

the maps do look great compared to my dnx5120 but i would rather take the accuracy of the garmin maps and POI any day also the map updates are around 54 dollars.

Well, yes, TeleAtlas maps aren't quite as good as Navteq for the US. OTOH, the unit isn't even running the latest maps to begin with...

the maps do look great compared to my dnx5120 but i would rather take the accuracy of the garmin maps and POI any day also the map updates are around 54 dollars.

$54 for the Garmin or the Pioneer updates? Map updates for my portable Garmin are far more than $54!

The Navteq vs. TeleAtlas debate is interesting and every recent comparison I've read suggest they are about as accurate (and inaccurate) as each other. In fact this review (http://www.gpsreview.net/navteq-vs-tele-atlas/) gives the edge to TeleAtlas, so untimately I'm not bothered who supplies the maps, as long as they're relatively up to date.

Currently, AVIC is using 2007-10 maps of the US/Canada. I have seen 2008-01 available for iGO, but in general it's probably more or less a toss-up, although in my anecdotal testing, Navteq was still a bit more accurate. Of course that might be because I mostly drive around Navteq's headquarters...

$54 for the Garmin or the Pioneer updates? Map updates for my portable Garmin are far more than $54!.

they are actually 69.99 but ive seen them on Amazon for around 54 dollars

forget their review, from my experience with my d3, the map database the POI were very inaccurate every time it would tell me that it was on the left but it was actually on the right. and the routing was just plain silly i just had to get rid of that unit.

Thank you for the responses. Based on the specs, I really want to buy this unit. I think its good advice to wait until the next firmware release to make a decision.

I think I will also check out the Kenwood a little closer.

I strongly believe that NavTeq maps are better than TeleAtlas. I'm pretty close to GIS technology and think NavTeq has the better product right now.

I will be going to TeleAtlas HQ in a couple of weeks. I'll see their pitch on why they are a contender.

Jack

I just noticed that Kenwood model doesn't have subwoofer preouts.

yes they do. why wouldn't they put that in there its not like its a factory radio

No they don't. They have 4 channels. You can use the two fronts and use the rears for the sub. But you can't have front, rear, and a sub.

Read page 6:

http://inform3.kenwoodusa.com/manuals%5 ... nstall.pdf

You have to go to the DNX7120 to get the six channel.

No they don't. They have 4 channels. You can use the two fronts and use the rears for the sub. But you can't have front, rear, and a sub.

 

Read page 6:

 

http://inform3.kenwoodusa.com/manuals%5 ... nstall.pdf

 

You have to go to the DNX7120 to get the six channel.

you can use the audio/visual for the rear and the rear preout/ subwoofer preout for the subs. mine was hooked up like that form the start but i took all of that stuff out