Really just joined to find out why you guys pay so much for the Avics. (What...$1400.00+???)
You can get a decend carputer for much less than that.
http://www.CustomCarputers.com

I'm not intending to be a "wise guy"...I'm really very curious.

I replied to you here:
http://www.avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=191

Maybe you being into the scene more. I have a double din opening in my dash. I want one system. No head unit and a car computer... just one car computer.

How do I power my speakers from my computer?

Is there double din opening for the screen and an adapter which will bolt one in easy?

How easy is it to get a cd/dvd drive in this double din opening with the car computer?

And I have an SUV, which means there is loads of room, but I have 3 rows of seats and I don't want to give up my fold down seats for lugging stuff from home depot by killing my rear space with amps and things.

I want something in the dash and an all in one solution. Is this possible with a car computer?

Ok, lets say I have a trunk and don't care about mounting anything... can I have only the car computer and get AM/FM/CD/DVD/NAV/Bluetooth/MP3, etc. With volume control and the cd drive in the dash? All in one double din opening?

I'm not trying to be a smart allic, I really couldn't get a good solution with just the computer alone.

ducatiboy said:

I want something in the dash and an all in one solution. Is this possible with a car computer?

Ok, lets say I have a trunk and don't care about mounting anything... can I have only the car computer and get AM/FM/CD/DVD/NAV/Bluetooth/MP3, etc. With volume control and the cd drive in the dash? All in one double din opening?

Not taking it as a "smart-allic" response. I appreciate your thorough answers.
Nope, no carputers available as a single in-dash system.
Then again, they don't take up very much room. Especially in an SUV, there's tons of spaces, even behind panels where the system can be installed.
I do look at compared costs, the AVIC's do alot of stuff, however they are rather pricey. And ultimately, more can be done with the PC style units.

CustomCarputers said:

Nope, no carputers available as a single in-dash system.
Then again, they don't take up very much room. Especially in an SUV, there's tons of spaces, even behind panels where the system can be installed.
I do look at compared costs, the AVIC's do alot of stuff, however they are rather pricey. And ultimately, more can be done with the PC style units.

What can you have as an indash single system?

Please post links for parts and things.

My main goal is to turn on my car, I want one system (I don't want one head unit for volume and one car computer) so I would have just the car computer.

I want:

Double din install (everything can be in the double din slot). The hard drive doesn't have to be mounted here neither does a usb or ethernet inteface, but I do want the touch screen in there and a CD/DVD drive in the dash (all in the double din slot).

I want:

AM/FM, Sat Radio, Ipod, DVD/cd (in dash), navigation, voice activation, retain factory steering wheel controls.


I know the sat radio and the ipod can be done, I have seen it. I know nav comptuer stuff can be done too.

So what can you do for AM/FM?

Let's say I don't mind having seperate computer mounted somewhere (outside the double din hole) and I don't mind mounting seperate amps somewhere outside of the double din hole (both of which I would need to do for the car computer).

I want to see what fits in a double din hole, has the CD/DVD drive in there, a volume knob, and a big touch screen.

Best I could come up with was 2 seperate DIN slots, one with a pull out video screen (or motorized, but some of those were known to be problematic) and a single din cd/dvd drive. No volume knob (maybe with a seperate Griffin Tech knob or something.

The car computer seemed very kludgie. I loved the fact I could have wireless in it and just drive next to my house and download MP3's from my server. But as expensive as it is, Pioneer houses quite a lot of functionality (more than most drivers would want) into a cute little self contained double din package.

Well, single din? Forget about that.
Double din? Possible.
FM? Not at this time, no units out there of any quality. (ones that plug into a pc)
You want a unit that goes into a double din, yet you want a big touchscreen? The biggest you could go for a din size is 7".

I'm glad I posted here, because now I'm really investigating the possibilities of building my own system. It would still only have a 7" TS monitor, but with a DVD drive, and all the usual stuff. (No FM)
The XM (or Sirius) box, the USB ports, Nav antenna/reciever, would all be seperate. Everything would be contained in the double din. (No volume knob though, and the amp would be external too)

There is no way (at this time) that a system could be built with all the components (including the amp) inside a double din unit.

What do you think the interest would be in this type of unit?

CustomCarputers said:

Well, single din? Forget about that.
Double din? Possible.
FM? Not at this time, no units out there of any quality. (ones that plug into a pc)
You want a unit that goes into a double din, yet you want a big touchscreen? The biggest you could go for a din size is 7".

I'm glad I posted here, because now I'm really investigating the possibilities of building my own system. It would still only have a 7" TS monitor, but with a DVD drive, and all the usual stuff. (No FM)
The XM (or Sirius) box, the USB ports, Nav antenna/reciever, would all be seperate. Everything would be contained in the double din. (No volume knob though, and the amp would be external too)

There is no way (at this time) that a system could be built with all the components (including the amp) inside a double din unit.

What do you think the interest would be in this type of unit?

When I said "big" touch screen, I meant a 6-7 inch one... not a 3 inch or something. 7 inch is plenty big.

I get the idea that to even come close to something like the Avic Z1 you would need to have a few external components (outside the double din opening).... like the computer itself and the amps... assuming no double systems (head unit and computer).

I couldn't figure out a way to have a screen in a double din opening and DVD drive and make it look "good". Some of the flip out fold in screens were ok, but when you see them compaired to the Z1, it looks "cheesie" and hacked together.

But sure, I would be interested in seeing what could be done with a car computer in a dash, something at least the "interface" (screen and dvd drive) would be in the double din opening.

With all the "extra stuff you have to wire" I still think I would have paid the extra like I did for the Avic Z1, it's small and all encased into a cute little double din opening. But with some of the car computer installs I didn't see any "complete" solutions which either as easy to install or looked as good in the dash.

What's would be the interest some place like this? Probably very little. But when I was researching these things, I was looking for a pretty double din install for me and since I couldn't find anything and I found the Z1, eclipse 6600 and the alpine W200 none of the car computer installs looked as good. Sure you can add some extra functionality, but 99% of the time, most people wouldn't use the extra features. And car computer projects take tons of time to install and tweak to get working just right with all the different software packages to choose from, some are free some aren't.... etc...

Actually, right now I'm still not 100% sure what direction I want to take with my system. I have a car PC that I'm working on, but also am on the lookout for a deal on an AVIC-D1 or D2.

The problem I'm having with the car PC project right now is it seems very kludgie, very unrefined, overly complex, and not particularly stable.

For one thing, the packaging is a problem. I'm using an Aopen MiniPC, it's tiny, powerful, has a slot DVD drive, and a smaller footprint than 1-DIN. However, I really like the idea of a 2-DIN unit with motorized LCD that reveals the DVD slot. I don't want a screen in the dash with nothing behind it and have to shove the computer in the glovebox or under the seat. Inserting discs would be very inconvenient. So far there are 2-DIN fixed-mount screen kits, but none that I can put the PC inside and reveal it by opening the screen.

You also need expensive power controllers (i.e. Carnetix P1900) to make it power up and shutdown correctly.

Then there's the issue of stability. Computers don't always go into S3 suspend and out of it 100% perfectly every time. Many of the front-end programs are unstable on my system, for example, Frodoplayer crashes a lot for some reason.

As far as refinement... Frodoplayer, Mediacar, and Roadrunner are all not as pretty nor ergonomic as a real touchscreen HU (at least not with the default skins). Nav isn't as well integrated, and I don't think popular nav software like iGuidance is as slick as the Pioneer AVIC software. You can usually tell that what you're doing is switching between different apps. USB FM tuners have poor sound quality and reception. You also have to find a way to integrate the LCD monitor controls because most do not allow the car PC to control the screen settings.

Overall, considering my needs (nav, MP3, FM), it's almost looking like buying a navigation HU+iPod is cheaper than a car PC. I already have $700 in just the PC, touchscreen, and GPS. That doesn't include the FM tuner, external soundcard I might need, power controller, software, amps, or the necessary fabrication to make it look "finished". Not to mention car stereos are easy to hook up and install in less than a day. It'll take many hours of fabrication to make my car PC look finished, especially if I want to build a 2-DIN box to house the PC and make the screen motorized like an AVIC D1/D2/Z1. It'll take awhile just to find the perfect front-end and many hours to play with it and tweak it to where it's stable. I still haven't discounted the car PC idea, but it's looking less and less practical.

I'm thinking of hooking a carputer up to my avic down the road. Unfortunately there wont be touch screen support with the Avic & carputer, but i'll be able to park in the right spot and surf the web. :P

Excellent GnatGoSplat. That's exactly the problems I saw with doing the car computer vs. just a very expensive head unit. Very well said. My feelings exactly.

I know this is an old topic, but I have some input to add, so here goes. I've had a carputer and I spend a TON of time at MP3Car.com. That said, the main issue with a carputer is that it's a project. I know for a fact there is nothing on the market that offers the flexibility and feature set of the AVIC-Z1, in a turn key solution. That means you're left to develop your own work arounds, which takes time.

If you like computers and you're looking for a project, a carputer is a great hobby, and after investing enough time, you'll have finished product that looks exactly how you want, and does exactly what you want. Most of us just don't have the time it takes to complete every phase of the project, which is why the Z1 is so attractive to us.

skicrave said:

I know this is an old topic, but I have some input to add, so here goes. I've had a carputer and I spend a TON of time at MP3Car.com. That said, the main issue with a carputer is that it's a project. I know for a fact there is nothing on the market that offers the flexibility and feature set of the AVIC-Z1, in a turn key solution. That means you're left to develop your own work arounds, which takes time.

If you like computers and you're looking for a project, a carputer is a great hobby, and after investing enough time, you'll have finished product that looks exactly how you want, and does exactly what you want. Most of us just don't have the time it takes to complete every phase of the project, which is why the Z1 is so attractive to us.

I couldn't agree more skicrave. Right now, this is a hobby at best and the carputer thing is still very much in its infancy. There is great stuff coming out every day and we would be foolish not to keep an eye on it.



The reason there aren't any double din solutions for a carputer is simple, no one has made one yet. This would require Pioneer (or any auto electronics specialist) to work with outside software venders and possibly MS or Apple. StreetDeck http://www.streetdeck.com/ is as close to a plug and play carputer solution as anything I've seen and the interface is WAAAY beyond the Z1. Once a company with the funding, knowledge and desire decides to do this we won’t be able to give our AVICs away. Imagine a Z1 that had gesture or graffiti input option, virtually unlimited HD space, upgradeable, wi-fi, e-mail, web access. Plus so customizable that almost no two would have the same interfaces, peripherals or software. Everything would be a choice, not forced and locked so we can’t customize. All that, and you can have the 13 year old geek next door help you resolve any problems because it’s sitting on an OS that everyone knows and loves (or hates).

Just my $.02 and I hope no thinks this means I don’t like my Z1, it’s great. Pioneer makes a great product and I think right now, today, it’s the best solution for navigation and music in a car…but I will have my carputer going again very soon too.

ducatiboy said:

I get the idea that to even come close to something like the Avic Z1 you would need to have a few external components (outside the double din opening).... like the computer itself and the amps... assuming no double systems (head unit and computer).

By the way ducatiboy, much respect but my Z1 has an external xm/traffic nav box, an external Bluetooth (piece of crap) and two amps plugged into it. There is only so much room in that double din hole.

Hi macalanche, I recognize you from the Chevy Avalanche forum.

I think it's true that a car PC has much more potential, the computing hardware is obviously more powerful. In fact, our AVICs are basically just computers running custom software and a custom OS. However, I think it'll be awhile before even the hardware is as refined as a navigation radio. No navigation software for the PC has quite the smoothness in a car as a navigation radio because it relies strictly on the GPS. The AVICs have a reverse wire input to ensure the arrow always points the right way, 3D sensors and VSS input to smoothly plot travel on the map, etc. The navigation software in the AVICs are programmed to use all these sensors where something like iGuidance or MS S&T lacks this ability. They are also designed from the ground-up with touchscreens in mind rather than needed some add-on.

I have never tried Streetdeck so I can't comment on the software's refinement, but I know Frodoplayer and the other front-ends are nowhere near as nice looking or intuitive as Pioneers GUI.

I have been kind of envisioning an add-on box that plugs into any PC, maybe via USB, but it might require something faster. This add-on box will have 5.1 channel pre-outs, internal EQ, fader, sub level adjustments, and a built-in 4-channel amplifier. It will be completely controlled via USB and the PC will see it as an AC97 compliant 5.1 soundcard. It will also have a built-in AM/FM RDS stereo tuner using an automotive tuner chipset for good reception. Possibly even a TV tuner since they are inexpensive. It should also have A/V I/O so you can hook up rear view cameras, etc. It should come with API's so programmers can easily use the built-in tuner, mixer, amp, etc. Perhaps this add-on box could also have hookups for a GPS antenna, inputs for reverse, VSS, etc. so the carputer will always know the status of those inputs and the programmer can make us eof them. Even better yet, this box should have all the power connections: 12V constant, switched, illumination, ext amp control, power antenna control, etc. Also an output to power the PC. Basically everything you'd ever want for a carputer in one box, just add the PC. Now imagine something like this that came with its own fully integrated A/V/Nav software.

I did see that Jensen has experiemented with real carputers, for example, the NAVT3PC.

Anyway, I'm like you. I put an AVIC-D1 into my truck, but I do envision someday a real carputer will be going into it. Maybe not anytime soon, but it's just a matter of time.

GnatGoSplat said:

Hi macalanche, I recognize you from the Chevy Avalanche forum.

I think it's true that a car PC has much more potential, the computing hardware is obviously more powerful. In fact, our AVICs are basically just computers running custom software and a custom OS. However, I think it'll be awhile before even the hardware is as refined as a navigation radio. No navigation software for the PC has quite the smoothness in a car as a navigation radio because it relies strictly on the GPS. The AVICs have a reverse wire input to ensure the arrow always points the right way, 3D sensors and VSS input to smoothly plot travel on the map, etc. The navigation software in the AVICs are programmed to use all these sensors where something like iGuidance or MS S&T lacks this ability. They are also designed from the ground-up with touchscreens in mind rather than needed some add-on.

I have never tried Streetdeck so I can't comment on the software's refinement, but I know Frodoplayer and the other front-ends are nowhere near as nice looking or intuitive as Pioneers GUI.

I have been kind of envisioning an add-on box that plugs into any PC, maybe via USB, but it might require something faster. This add-on box will have 5.1 channel pre-outs, internal EQ, fader, sub level adjustments, and a built-in 4-channel amplifier. It will be completely controlled via USB and the PC will see it as an AC97 compliant 5.1 soundcard. It will also have a built-in AM/FM RDS stereo tuner using an automotive tuner chipset for good reception. Possibly even a TV tuner since they are inexpensive. It should also have A/V I/O so you can hook up rear view cameras, etc. It should come with API's so programmers can easily use the built-in tuner, mixer, amp, etc. Perhaps this add-on box could also have hookups for a GPS antenna, inputs for reverse, VSS, etc. so the carputer will always know the status of those inputs and the programmer can make us eof them. Even better yet, this box should have all the power connections: 12V constant, switched, illumination, ext amp control, power antenna control, etc. Also an output to power the PC. Basically everything you'd ever want for a carputer in one box, just add the PC. Now imagine something like this that came with its own fully integrated A/V/Nav software.

I did see that Jensen has experiemented with real carputers, for example, the NAVT3PC.

Anyway, I'm like you. I put an AVIC-D1 into my truck, but I do envision someday a real carputer will be going into it. Maybe not anytime soon, but it's just a matter of time.

Shawn, it's good to be recognized :D

You are very right, the software and hardware isn't there yet but I do believe that it'll be here sooner than later. Take a moment to look at the Streetdeck site, I think you'll be surprised at how far they have come. Check out this video http://www.streetdeck.com/preview_media/preview.wmv

Touch Screen Control - Gesture Interface, Navigation & Mapping, Bluetooth Phone Integration, Satellite Radio, FM Radio, CD player/MP3 Extraction, MP3 Player, DVD/Video Player, Picture Viewer, WiFi Sync Support, Rear-view Camera Support, Vehicle Diagnostics, Remote Control / Stock Steering Wheel Control Support, DirectX Rendering Engine, and Voice Interface. The only reason I didn't buy this thing instead of the Z1 is it's still Beta and I'd been dealing with so much Beta software with my Mac that I just wanted something that worked and had a warrantee (and it's the wrong OS for me :lol: )