I've seen a lot of people ask the question over whether or not a hard drive will work with their AVIC F series but I haven't seen a list of people who have tried a certain hard drive and had success or failure. I know generally the 1.8" will work but they are expensive and running a second usb cable to an aux power connector is a fugly solution. So I thought it would be a good idea for everyone who has had success to post their specific hard drive (brand, model, size) and everyone who has had a failure to post theirs as well. This way it won't be a guessing game when someone on here buys their AVIC and wants to slap an external hard drive in their glove box. This post is out of frustration with just having a failure of my own. So, here's the first hard drive on the list:

Model Name: Toshiba Portable External Hard Drive

Model number:HDDR250E03X

Size: 250 GB

Result: FAIL

Make sure you format your drive to FAT32 (or if it is small FAT16) because the F Series units will not recognize NTFS formatted drives. I have an 8 GB USB stick I had to reformat because it was not recognized.

Yes it was formatted, the drive got the same result as if it were plugged into a low powered USB Port, like one on a keyboard.

List the file systems and cluster sizes you tried. And you have to have another USB cable for power because the AVIC unit will not supply enough current to spin up a 2.5'' hard drive. If you're going to test 2.5'' drives, at least give it the proper power to spin up.. because you'll sit there all day long plugging in hard drives and they won't even spin up and initialize if you don't feed them enough current.

That's the point of this post, because there are people on here who say that they have full functionality on a 2.5 but don't list the brand or make. You can say that no 2.5s will work, but people on here say they have them working a second USB hookup. This is am attempt to get those people to post what they use so that people on here can know what hard drives will work everytime. If you search in the trouble shooting forum for what hard drives work and you will see these posts. I'm trying to draw those people out and hopefully we will find out some.

I fail to see how a larger drive could be recognized considering the version of Windows CE on the unit only recognizes a native partition size of 32GB or smaller. I think people are BS'ing, or they found a way around by using a non-native partitioning method. (which if they did find a work-around, it seems like they would have shared it with the community already) Really though, there isn't a problem with getting a 2.5'' hdd to work with the unit. It's the native partition size in 99% of these cases that will prevent it from working how you think it should and be recognized.

I fail to see how a larger drive could be recognized considering the version of Windows CE on the unit only recognizes a native partition size of 32GB or smaller.

Since when?

Since Microsoft stated it and designed it that way?

Windows CE 5.0 (with all QFE's)

 

Supported FAT implementations: FAT12 / FAT16 / FAT32 / TFAT

Maximum Native Partition Size: 32GB

Maximum Non-Native Partition Size: 2TB | 16TB (Theoretical)

Maximum Supported Volume: 128 PetaBytes (48-bit LBA | Theoretical)

Maximum Cluster Size: 32KB

NT cluster sizes up to 64KB are not supported

Object Store Size: 256MB

Max File Size (Object Store): 32MB

Max File Size (FAT): 4GB theoretical, in practice no larger than available system memory

If you have a solution such as a driver workaround, alternate file system, or reg edit, please let us know.

Since Microsoft stated it and designed it that way?

 

Windows CE 5.0 (with all QFE's)

 

Supported FAT implementations: FAT12 / FAT16 / FAT32 / TFAT

Maximum Native Partition Size: 32GB

Maximum Non-Native Partition Size: 2TB | 16TB (Theoretical)

Maximum Supported Volume: 128 PetaBytes (48-bit LBA | Theoretical)

Maximum Cluster Size: 32KB

NT cluster sizes up to 64KB are not supported

Object Store Size: 256MB

Max File Size (Object Store): 32MB

Max File Size (FAT): 4GB theoretical, in practice no larger than available system memory

This isn't a native or boot partition. Microsoft claims that it does support over 128GB, too...

Attached media (USB/SD) is a native partition. And at least link us up with where Microsoft lists Windows CE 5 as supporting >32GB native partitions, because I copy/pasted that info right from Microsoft Technet. Do you have >32GB drive support working? Present us with some factual and physical evidence if you are going to make claims.

Attached media (USB/SD) is a native partition. And at least link us up with where Microsoft lists Windows CE 5 as supporting >32GB native partitions, because I copy/pasted that info right from Microsoft Technet. Do you have >32GB drive support working? Present us with some factual and physical evidence if you are going to make claims.

I have a 320GB drive working, as I have posted here on numerous occasions.

You list is from РЗС Factor, not MSDN or Technet. And on the bottom the article they say:

HPC:Factor has confirmed that Windows CE is capable, at least in principe of addressing volumes up to 300GB however use of this in practice is not recommended and even then not over 137 GB. No solid usage or performance tests have been carried out on such a setup.

 

Why shouldn't volumes larger than 32GB be used with older versions of Windows CE.

 

Windows CE 5.0 and above offers a more performance minded FATFS driver, with CE 6.0 offering a native way to bypass the 32GB limitation through the use of ExFAT...........

Also check http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916762 which talks about using drives over 128GB on CE 5.0

Yes, that's great. Present your evidence and explain.

Yes, that's great. Present your evidence and explain.

That it works for me is all the evidence I need. And Microsoft seems to concur, too...

Negative. Method used to bypass the 32GB partition, cluster size, file system, screenshot/picture proof booted in Windows CE mode, connectivity method, etc.

But yeah, I have a RAID5 array connected to my radio and it works fine because I say it does and I won't show any proof.

I have a working 120GB hard drive connected as posted herehttp://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=23298&start=15 although im still having the problem where when i switch the unit off and back on again it doesnt automatically recognise its there i have to still unplug the usb and plug it back in again? any ideas?

Negative. Method used to bypass the 32GB partition, cluster size, file system, screenshot/picture proof booted in Windows CE mode, connectivity method, etc.

 

But yeah, I have a RAID5 array connected to my radio and it works fine because I say it does and I won't show any proof.

Suit yourself. There was no "method" to bypass anything, it is obviously running FAT32, and the only connectivity AVIC supports is over USB anyway.

In any case, AVIC would not care if you are connecting a single disk or RAID5 to it, as long as it is properly formatted.

Care to show a Microsoft link that says that WinCE 5.0 is limited to 32GB on external storage?

If you really need proof that it's supported, here's the email from pioneer customer service a week or two back when I contacted them, there is no reason to go after each other, I believe the reason for the 250 GB limit is because of the power needed for anything larger, apparently it's an issue for most 250's as well.

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

 

The unit will work with most external hard drives. The size limitation would be 250 gig however it is very important that the hard drive not require more than 500 milliamp.

 

Thank You

 

--Original Message--

From:

Date: 04/23/09

To: [email protected]

Subject: Feature and Specification|B00002|2676299076[#1244990]

 

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Inquiry Type:Feature and Specification

lstPublishers:0002

lstTitles:B00002-Car Products-Navigation Inquiry:Do all head units in the AVIC F line support pocket hard drives? If they can, what is the maximum supported capacity? I am thinking about getting my brother one and I believe he has an AVIC F700 but I'm not sure, and I read somewhere that a while back headunits had a hard time powering external hard drives, so I wanted to make sure that something along the lines of a WD My passport or Seagate FreeAgent would be supported.

 

Thanks,

Well, that's good to know then. That's all I was asking for. It must allocate a hard drive as a non-native partition due to having it's own controller. The issue with the large majority of people not getting theirs to work properly seem to be power related issues. But as far as the 250GB limit (probably just a soft limit), it may have something to do with how many sectors the unit has to scan through since FAT32 does a serial style scanning method which taxes the AVIC unit's processing capabilities too much. However, the unit is theoretically capable of addressing larger drives. Since we won't be performing writes to the drives when they're plugged into the AVIC, that shouldn't matter as much though, because we'd only be looking at read-only performance without a need for write enumeration over all those sectors. If it is determined there's a brick wall at 250GB, there may be something that was artificially added to the registry to prevent long wait times which disables drives over a certain size.

so has no one had success with a drive running off of just the power from the head unit?

According to the manual, the max current output of the USB port on the unit is 500mA (if that). If you look at most 2.5'' drives, the spin-up requirements are generally higher. For example, a Seagate Momentus 5400rpm drive needs roughly 1000mA on spin-up, double of what the Avic unit can supply it.

According to the manual, the max current output of the USB port on the unit is 500mA (if that). If you look at most 2.5'' drives, the spin-up requirements are generally higher. For example, a Seagate Momentus 5400rpm drive needs roughly 1000mA on spin-up, double of what the Avic unit can supply it.

On that note i had a thought. Im going to be wiring my 3.5" hard drive to a 12V line in the car, when i look on the plug it says output 12V / 2A (amps) i dont know what the ampage output from the car is so if i put an inline fuse for 2A will that work or will it just blow the fuse if the ampage is more than 2?

I just picked up one of these to mount in my glovebox:

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Use-Car-Cha ... 036&sr=8-4

...now all I need is my F700BT, lol. The stupid thing was on back-order so I'm canceling and re-ordering right now.

But for 2.5'' drive applications, a 2A circuit is plenty. Just look at the specs of what hard drive you are using. The manufacturer usually lists what the specs on their drives are. Most of the 2.5'' drives, I've seen pull about 1.5A during write cycles. But they are operating at 5v.

For your 3.5'' drive, I assume you're using the DC brick that came with it, and just snipping that to wire it directly into the DC power port on the drive enclosure. In that case, a 2A fuse may be too little. A 3.5'' drive can pull more current than that upon spin-up. A 3 to 5 amp fuse is plenty however. Don't worry about having a slightly larger fuse anyway; the drive won't pull more than it's designed to, unless there's a failure of some sort.

I'd actually recommend using the 2.5'' drive anyhow. They're designed to take more shock, they use less power, and the unit supposedly only has a 250GB limit on drive size.

I just picked up one of these to mount in my glovebox:

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Use-Car-Cha ... 036&sr=8-4

 

...now all I need is my F700BT, lol. The stupid thing was on back-order so I'm canceling and re-ordering right now.

 

But for 2.5'' drive applications, a 2A circuit is plenty. Just look at the specs of what hard drive you are using. The manufacturer usually lists what the specs on their drives are. Most of the 2.5'' drives, I've seen pull about 1.5A during write cycles. But they are operating at 5v.

 

For your 3.5'' drive, I assume you're using the DC brick that came with it, and just snipping that to wire it directly into the DC power port on the drive enclosure. In that case, a 2A fuse may be too little. A 3.5'' drive can pull more current than that upon spin-up. A 3 to 5 amp fuse is plenty however. Don't worry about having a slightly larger fuse anyway; the drive won't pull more than it's designed to, unless there's a failure of some sort.

 

I'd actually recommend using the 2.5'' drive anyhow. They're designed to take more shock, they use less power, and the unit supposedly only has a 250GB limit on drive size.

I dont really want to be using the DC brick/plug as i still need to be able to use it in the house to add/remove files from it. The DC converter is the actual plug so its difficult to wire it with that in line. I have a seperate wire without the converter which plugs into the Hard drive. I figured because the voltage is 12V and car voltage is 12V i could wire it straight to a 12V line in a car without the converter but obviously put a 2-5A fuse in between but if the ampage is more than 2-5A wont it just blow the fuse?

Yeah, just snip the cord on the DC converter and hard wire it with a 5A fuse. That will be plenty for a hard drive. I dont' know what type 3.5'' drive you're using. There are some drives like the Seagate 7200.8 and above series, they pull ~3A on spin-up.