tacomaboy

Good riddance!

All you did was complain about Avic .. ALL THE TIME!

 

Second!

 

So boring now though...

Hahah if it keeps things interesting I can still complain about the AVIC hahahah.

The Eclipse has a lower rez screen, right?

I dont think so. Its WQVGA or whatever. It does not look lower rez to me at least.

Hey all. Well I will go ahead and leave my impressions of the AVN726e. Got it locally for 899, not a bad price. About the same as what I paid online for my AVIC F-900BT.

Good:

-Bootup is instant. Well, maybe 2 seconds, and I can access NAV and iPod and Bluetooth.

-GUI is very fast and responsibe. The 3.0101 software fixed the AVIC, but it still was not as fast as the Eclipse is.

-GUI is very simple - at the cost of some functionality, the GUI has been made very clean, very simple. MUCH better than the Kenwood, and somewhat better than the AVIC F.

-Navigation is soooo much better. Voice sounds better, map display is VERY smooth, pretty much the same as the OEM Lexus system I have seen. Routing is very fast and intuitive, the music continues to play when the turns are announced (this was a pain to set in the AVIC, but could still be done).

-Bluetooth is MUUUUCH more reliable. Instant connection and disconnection, no hangups, flawless as it should be. Sound quality is great, and I can continue to navigate the GUIs while on a call. Navigation voice comes through when on a call as well (to the other party's surprise hehe).

-Larger, brighter screen, buttons are more solid feeling.

-iPod control is fast and responsive.

-The sound quality is MUCH better. I was actually surprised how much better it sounds. 24bit DAC and 5volt outs perhaps?

-Video playback is smoother and much better looking

-NO CRASHES OR FREEZES

Bad:

-I admit I miss the voice control - especially for phone calls. Although, it didnt work anywhere near 100% of the time, so the added frustration of repeating myself over and over may override this as a good.

-The Kenwood camera wont work with it. Eclipse has a proprietary connector and I am having a hell of a time trying to find an adapter for it.

So far I am incredibly happy with it. Once I get the camera situation fixed I will be a happy freaking camper. I may add steering wheel controls to compensate for lack of voice commands.

Well, it was a nice ride. Many of you hate me here, many of you don't.

Finally sold my AVIC-F900BT and bought an Eclipse AVN-726e. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. I took quite a hit on the AVIC, but considering I was just about ready to take it to a field and pull an Office Space on it... any money is better than none.

And yes, I sold the XM with it.

So long fellas!

Try changing X and Y for the clock, see if it moves it elsewhere. If it doesn't then you know that is not the right tag. Do the same for the map confirm button.

Looks like Pioneer has polished the turds that were the F series. Problem is - a polished turd is still a turd. If you need one right now, get the F whatever and the map/3.0 update. Otherwise, wait a few months until the X series turns out to be the turds I'm sure they'll be and get it for a fraction of the release price.

 

However, if you want something more reliable right now, I might have to suggest going with a Kenwood. Sure, they don't have the voice command for dialing a call, but really, neither does Pioneer.

 

P.S. Is anyone in this forum actually excited about the new lineup? I sincerely hope no current F series owners would ever buy anything from Pioneer ever again.

I wouldn't say Kenwood is more reliable if you read how buggy their flagship 9140 is

 

http://kenwoodforums.com/viewtopic.php? ... 7ca7b9abc4

They may be buggy, but look at the fourth post in that thread. THAT is what Pioneer is really missing. It sucks to produce a buggy unit, it sucks far worse to ignore the bugs and charge money for half hearted fixes.

 

Yep thats my problem. I guess if I paid 400 bucks I wouldn't be too pissed, especially with all the reviews out there saying how bad it can be.

 

So really the issue isn't the performance of the unit, but your own individual shopping decision.

 

I followed the Twenty-second Law, but since I got a unit with 2.0 already installed, I guess I broke the Twenty Third law. Still, I paid what I thought was a fair price for it, and am happy with the unit. I'm predicting that I'll be happier when the 3.0 update gets to me.

Your leaps of logic are astounding. Firstly, the "laws" are for developers, not for consumers. Secondly, the fact that Pioneer broke both laws shows what poor performance they provided during P.D. Thirdly, yes, I clearly made a mistake with my shopping habits. Lesson learned. Never purchase from Pioneer, as they produce poor qualityproducts, and it takes over a year for them to devise a fix, which they intend to charge customers for. What ever was I thinking!? I should have known to not trust Pioneer!

Your logic fails when I simply point to the iPhone. Caveat Emptor, of course, however when one is burned by a company as badly as many of us were burned by Pioneer, its clearly the better decision to never trust Pioneer again. Its not so much the poorly made software that bothers me, mind you, but its the lack of decent support on Pioneers part that really gets me.

I have been on this forum a good while now, and Pioneer has yet to admit to any member that the software had any known issues. Each reported call to customer service yielded a dumbfounded response. Clearly these were fabricated lies by Pioneer, as they were surely aware of the problems (i.e. 2.0, and 3.0). But to ignore them for so long, fail to acknoweldge them when presse3d, and in the end, try to make MONEY from the bugs....

Take Microsoft's Xbox 360. Defective red ring of death. How did MS deal with it? FREE fixes, hardware updates for free and EXTENDING the warranty for FREE! Sure MS screwed the pooch, but they dealt with it in a reasonable manner. Pioneer could learn a thing or two...

I'm sure you can pick up a unit from tacomaboy.

Of course, his clearly his issues that go way beyond general AVIC F series flaws, but he's too focused on bitching and moaning to actually send it in for repair.

Issues such as?

In my long list of issues I have had with my unit, not one of them is unique. Many others have had the same problems. I make it no secret that I do not like my unit. But to imply that mine is worse than any other unit is absurd.

And Pioneer would repair my unit by reformatting and replacing software, which is what I have done.

Haha yeah I am selling my 900Bt, with the 3.0101 software, its on eBay right now.

Then, as a software engineer, you should be familiar with rules 22 and 23 of the unwritten rules of systems engineering.

 

*Systems Management Risk. The systems engineering management of a large project is very difficult in the start up phase. Requirements are late. Of course they are late but engineering should never use that as an excuse and fail to conduct parametric analysis around expected requirement limits. Staffing is under the planned level. Design engineering is yelling for firm requirements as if the system engineer knows what the requirements are but just won't tell. The result is that the Chief Systems Engineer is under fire and may be replaced by a new person who is given a new longer schedule and increased budget and perhaps reduced expectation of results. This typical half life of one year makes some people cautious.

 

The Twenty Second Law:

 

Never go in with the first wave.

 

*More Risk. It is not clear that you can succeed if you are part of the second wave. Some projects are so difficult that an extension of the law is as follows:

 

The Twenty Third Law:

 

Never go in with the second wave either.

 

http://evansopticalengineering.com/Page00/sysenlaw.htm

 

Sounds very familiar - like every major project I have been in. Pioneer went with the first wave. No real requirements and so Engineers(If you want to call em that) just hacked out what they could with no design.

The only thing I have to compare the F900BT to is the Lexus factory navigation system. If I were to rate the two comparatively, I would give the F900BT a 3 out of 10 and the Lexus system a 10 out of 10. It's a world of difference. I just don't understand why, after many many years of research and development, Pioneer can't develop a system which can compete with the factory navigation systems.

 

I'm the same way. That navi and bluetooth works unbelievably well. Lexus really has it figured out.

Toyota and Lexus use Fujitsu Ten (i.e. Eclipse) systems. I have decided to go with the AVN726e. I have done research and messed with one in the store and it is rock solid. INSTANT bootup.

I have to admit I love this. Its a great big middle finger to Pioneer. One they completely deserve.

i have to say thx tacomaboy for providing this for us. i installed and everything is running smooth, i'm just actually glad that my house and street are on the new maps

Dont thank me, I am the guy who hates the AVIC F . But I have some assembled instructions somewhere that has a step by step, can someone save me more trouble and find them, and post them in a new thread?

Ahh if its already booted, then it takes mayb 3 seconds which is not so bad. But 99% of the time, the car is turned off before I kick it into reverse.

 

Start car, switch to reverse -- my camera comes right up.

Switch car, pick noseignore person honking behind you to back out already!, switch to reverse -- have to wait for system to boot before it switches.

fixed hehe.

Also, how does it take you 10 seconds to put on a seat belt?

For example, some people think 10Second reverse camera is ok. However, I get in the car and buckle. THEN I start the car, and put it into reverse.

 

Funny... if I do that, camera comes on instantly. It's only if I go into reverse when it is in the middle of boot-up that I have to wait.

Ahh if its already booted, then it takes mayb 3 seconds which is not so bad. But 99% of the time, the car is turned off before I kick it into reverse.

- unit switches to NAV when a call is placed or received

Well, to be honest I wouldn't call this a bug

Because when you are using navigation while e.g. watching a DVD (means: no map on the screen) and someone calls you, then the voice of the navigation will get muted - and if the unit wouldn't change back to the map mode, you wouldn't know where to drive to, because you have *no* voice out of the navigation system (muted by the phone call) and *no* view to the map, because the DVD is still runing.

 

Of course, a parameter switch would be nice to steer that behavior - but I wouldn't call it a bug on the first hand...

 

Bye,

Boby

I think it is a bug, having worked in Software Development for so long I guarantee QA would write me up a ticket for a poor feature like this. Requirements and Design can have defects as well.

I think the problem is, there are too many people taking MINOR MINOR issues and making them sound like they are the end of the world.

 

I guess youll have that no matter where you go, there is always somebody not happy because something doesnt work the way THEY think it should.

 

My F700BT is fantastic now after the full 3.0 update... and I use an iPod every day... wow big deal I have to enable VR scanning in the settings screen then once in a blue moon I update my iPod, I am not going to come cry about it. For $300 it was well well worth it.

Its all relative of course. Maybe I am super picky, maybe you are very laid back.

I did not pay 300 bucks though. I paid over 1000, and have had to live with lots of problems for a year, it gets to you.

Having to turn the VR on, wait for it to cycle, then go back and turn it off every time I add a song, gets really tiring after a while.

And some of us use it differently, I add music pretty often.

For example, some people think 10Second reverse camera is ok. However, I get in the car and buckle. THEN I start the car, and put it into reverse. In a parking lot, with someone waiting for you to back out, 10 seconds is forever, even at home in the garage I have to sit there for 10 seconds picking my nose waiting for my camera to come on like some kind of tool. Count to 10 slowly, and imagine sitting there in your car. Now do it 3 or 4 times a day for a year. I want my 900 seconds of life back.

well, i got it off tacomaboy,

 

Again, I take no credit for this - thanks to tacomaboy

Allegedly

Well, I see the way you are doing the 3.0 update as a HACKED version myself, you took the firmware of the X series and put it into your F series..... hmmm sounds like a hack to me. We don't fully know what really has been fixed on the F series firmware untill the update comes out. like others have stated, the X series might have hardware parts (updated or just diff chipsets) then th F series that might not allow the f series take full advantage of the X series firmware, BUt the f series 3.0 update might have the fixes in it that work better with our hardware.

 

As for the LONG list of problems you listed, well I have not had ALOT of those issues, and others arn't as bad as other units i have used in the part. Like the issue of the navi not stopping after reaching destination, I have only had that happen ONCE, every other time it works like it should, I have never had the issue of it directing me "home" right from the start UNLESS i have already activated it before i shut the car off (like i stopped for food), but IMHO thats what it supposed to do. Bluetooth used to give me the most issues, that was untill i for my Palm Pre, now it works GREAT!!!! I only had the issue of the 50 sec hang one time since i got my new phone. Ever call sound about the same in volume and my audio going out to them sound great (except when the microphone fell back into the dash a little bit messing up the line-of-sight to my mouth and that made it sound hollow and caused the other people to hear alot of background noise). YES the start up time is REALLY SLOW and the lag on the button/screen hits are bad, but the latter of the 2 has been fixed in 3.0 and that was my biggest issue with it now.

Well, to me, a Software Engineer with a Masters in Software Engineering and 8 years experience under my belt, a hack is defined as a software modification in order to bypass certain features.

I did not modify any software at all, so no hack. but to each there own.

You are welcome to pay Pioneer for what they should have given for free if you want. If you are happy with yours then clearly you have lower standards than I (and others) do. Not a problem, keep your unit. I am moving on.

I might be able to think of some more but I don't want to at this time. Even with these fault I think it is a pretty nice unit for the price I paid.

 

but that is the problem...some of us paid 1200 for our units, others paid 400. you might feel like you got a good deal but others, like tacomaboy, feel betrayed.

 

Had I paid 400 for the 900bt i would be upset but not betrayed, but I paid 900 bucks for this thing and for what? A shitty nav system, ipod problems, MSN that does not work and has not worked since the second week, and shitty bluetooth. Im sorry but that is unacceptable.

Yep thats my problem. I guess if I paid 400 bucks I wouldn't be too pissed, especially with all the reviews out there saying how bad it can be. But I bought it on faith that Pioneer would make a great product, and I really feel betrayed that:

A: Pioneer released a very bad product

B: Pioneer made promises it couldnt/wouldnt keep (namely if you watched the videos of the unit as I did you had a high expectation).

C: Pioneer failed to release timely fixes to these problems

D: Pioneer is trying to charge users for fixes.

He,s right pioneer avic units are a piece of shit i pulled avic f90bt unit out of my car and installed the eclipse gps avn76d way better unit everything works good with this unit, I can,t believe people are still holding on to their false hopes for the pioneer avic.

How do you like that Eclipse, I was considering the avn76e, but the JVC has streaming bluetooth audio and is cheaper which is good. The videos all make it look pretty solid, but I am gonna find one in store, pair it to my ipod, phone, etc and really use it first.

I find if I press the command button before it is FULLY booted it will do this. Any chance thats happening to you?

have a look at the Clarion Navigation decks with internal HD

Clarion? Any specific models? I am going to see if any shops in town have the JVC KW-NT1 so I can beat on it some.

is that a us deck or an eu deck?

U.S.

there is a small chance that there is a subtle difference between the X's and the F's lets' at least wait until someone gets the official "F" 3.0 upgrade..... id leave it on order......

 

question...... is there documentation that says that everything hardwarewise, even the mb (motherboard), is the same..... they could have differences that changes how the software functions ... I am grasping here, but it would seem that pioneer would do more than just "change the clothes" and call them new units, thus coping the hardrive from one type to the other may not be 100% compatible..... thoughts...

The 3.0101 software works on my AVIC-F900bt with no mods or hacks necessary. Any hardware changes are insignificant. Someone mentioned an Apple ecoding chip and 5V output. But the X software works (as well as it can, I suppose).