How many of are fed up with Pioneer Electronics US support?

I purchased over $8,000.00 in Pioneer products this past May, one of those being the infamous Z2. At the time, I noticed a number of issues some of those being:

Incorrect routing:

Poor Accuracy of the GPS itself

- I have found many times as I am driving in San Antonio that I will be driving on one street and the GPS unit is showing I’m on a totally different street parallel to the one I am actually driving on.

-I have had the unit tell me to turn right onto a freeway entrance ramp that is actually on my left.

-The GPS unit has instructed me to turn right many times ignoring the fact that doing so would require crashing into a barrier and crossing over an adjacent highway.

-Regularly the GPS end of this unit shows I am driving on a highway when I am on the access road.

I have been calling Pioneer support for months hoping that they would have some hidden setting or way of tweaking the system to address these issues. At best the most help I have been given is " well an update will be coming out soon, hopefully that will address some of your issues". After dealing with several individuals in Pioneers California support center, the only option I have been given is to purchase the upcoming Z3 update and incur additional cost. Most REPUTABLE companies support their malfunctioning products with FREE repair, updates, and support. .

Imagine if Microsoft made you purchase every subsequent update, such as Service Pack 1, Service Pack 2, Congress would be hanging the corporation by its toes.

After dealing with Pioneers support for the last few months I find it necessary to now consult with my fellow Z2 owners and see how many of you feel that the time has come that we must now use legal remedies to force Pioneer to support its products. If any of you are genuinely interested in assembling to engage in a class action suit against Pioneer Electronics US please respond below.

Your poll needs a fourth option: I'm somewhat satisfied and can deal with the systems inadequacies. I prefer NOT to pursue legal recourse.

Now, normally I'm a very litigious person. However, I understand the intricacies and difficulty of map routing. The size of the database that holds all the routes, directions, permissions must be enormous and is constantly changing. A monumental task to be sure. There are only two real issues with my unit that I am disappointed with: 1) The library organization; no listing of albums under artist search and 2) the learn route feature. I've had my unit for over a year now and the darn thing still doesn't know the route I take home from work EVERYDAY.

Other than that, Pioneer was good enough to provide a fix to the overheat/freeze issue and they provide the gracenote updates once or twice a year. Sure, the system/map updates could be cheaper...but I don't think most 'round here pay. They just wait for an image.

Overall...I give it a 7.5/8.0 out of 10.

You forgot to mention the horrible routing.

The new Updated Z3 hard drive I have still doesn't have my neighborhod on it, lets add that. LOL

How did you decide to sue pioneer instead of the company that provides the map data?

Just curious, where is your antenna and did you bother to hook up the VSS wire?

Here's an option for you- If you are so totally angry at your Z2, sell it and look at something else. I know when I test drove my last vehicle, I was really pleased and bought it. Then came the shortcomings. A few problems, and finally it was traded in on my current vehicle. One I love. Would I sue the manufacturer for my last vehicle because I learned to not like it so much? No, dispite about a dozen trips to the service department for several differnt problems. And I spent WAY more than 8,000 bucks on it. just my 2 cents.

(I know, I own a D3, but have installed dozens of Z1's and Z2's, and have never heard any complaints from any of my customers about the routing or accuracy. Only the slowness of releasing the CDDB updates. Thanks, Pioneer, for the recent release, by the way.)

Here is just my 2 cents worth.......I bought a refurb z2 off Ebay, had it for a couple months with no problems at all......my routing was spot on everytime. Just did the Z2 to Z3 upgrad a week or so ago...and still don't have any issues for the way I use the unit.....except for the Artist..Album glitch. I did BTW take the time to read the manual and learn the voice commands and my bluetooth works perfect with my Blackjack. Or maybe I'm just one of the lucky few......But at this time I am happy with my now Z3 and would not pursue a lawsuit against Pioneer.....Again this is just my 2 Cents.

I'm not really sure if you can sue Pioneer for having some quirks and occasional incorrect information in their Navigation systems, even if it sends you into a horrifying part of town. First of all, Pioneer does not map their database. Second, it is actually considered an in-car-entertainment and convenience system. If the military were outfitting their Hum-Vees with a Z2, and targeting enemy strong holds based on the database in the Z2, and accidentally levelled the Norweigian Embassy...a decent lawyer might be able to get some bucks...but probably not from Pioneer. The US military should have known better. Although, it wouldn't be the first time they acted on bad information....

Well I am happy to see I have at least started a discussion on the issue. My problem is not with the map data, living in a large metro area I realize that it is impossible to be 100% accurate at all times. My issues are with the lack of support and attitude I have received dealing with Pioneer support. For those of you who have inquired: My VSS is hooked up, the Pioneer GPS antenna included is front and center of the vehicle mounted on my dash with an unobstructed line of sight to the northern sky and surrounding window view .

I find it unnecessary to even mention the possibility of litigation against TeleAtlas- the map data company. I have used 3 other GPS units all powered by TeleAtlas map data and all have demonstrated precision in their accuracy. For a unit to be off more than 20 meters and to encounter a product support team that essentially laughs in your face is unacceptable. I feel such action is necessary against Pioneer USA Corporation as it is their engineers that did the programming which allows the Avic Z2 to interpret the map data. This is obvious when I can see a freeway entrance ramp that shows it is on my left side but the audio is saying “slight right turnâ€. Second, almost every GPS unit I have used can differentiate between a Ramp and a Turn. The Z2 seems to have problems with this as almost every freeway entrance ramp I have come across is a “slight __ Turn†only ONCE have I heard the unit announce “enter the freeway entrance ramp aheadâ€. Additionally, I find it hard to consider taking such action against TeleAtlas as I do see the correct streets on the maps and they appear where they are supposed to, however it is the manner in which the Z2 is interpreting the GPS signal and plotting that interpretation on the maps that is an issue. Another issue I have with what is supposed to be such a sophisticated piece of hardware is the inability to adjust the timing of notifications; On a daily basis as I am driving I’m being told to TURN when I am right upon that intersection. Almost every GPS unit I have since looked at has some feature that allows you to increase the amount of notice you are given before an upcoming turn or action. To have purchased a $2000.00 head unit that was supposed to be fully upgradeable and to see the manufacturer putting out only map updates on yearly basis for the past 2 years is unacceptable.

For those interested I am working with a major Texas law firm who has shown interest in accepting the case should enough support be demonstrated by end users.

These issues had not become apparent to me when I first had this unit installed last year while living in El Paso, TX. At first I seemed pleased with the unit; it is somewhat difficult to test the true accuracy in that environment when you have one major interstate running through out the city. It wasn't until moving to San Antonio, TX that all these issues became evident.

As another member in this forum previously pointed out- Pioneer is a small company and doesn’t care much about what the end user has to say. That being said, this seems to be the only way I can conceive to encourage them to care.

Did you say "Pioneer is a small company"? That is like saying, "tidal waves are moist". They are not, by any means, a small company. And, although the technical 'support' they offer is largely unhelpful and frustrating, most of the other 'small' mobile electronics manufacturers (Sony, Kenwood, Alpine, Clarion, etc.) are not much easier, or more satisfying to deal with. Try calling Directed Electronics' tech support line sometime. Or Autopage's. But I digress. Your best bet when trying to solve an issue with your newest mobile electronics equipment's performance or installation - right here. A forum comprised of geeks, nerds, hackers, enthusiasts and seasoned installers who usually figure out the problems AND their solutions before the manufacturer of the product's R&D department even realizes a problem exists.

I'm not really sure if you can sue Pioneer for having some quirks and occasional incorrect information in their Navigation systems, even if it sends you into a horrifying part of town. First of all, Pioneer does not map their database. Second, it is actually considered an in-car-entertainment and convenience system. If the military were outfitting their Hum-Vees with a Z2, and targeting enemy strong holds based on the database in the Z2, and accidentally levelled the Norweigian Embassy...a decent lawyer might be able to get some bucks...but probably not from Pioneer. The US military should have known better. Although, it wouldn't be the first time they acted on bad information....

Why the Norwegian Embassy? Has Norway Wronged you.

Just because you don't like the product doesn't mean you can sue the company behind it.

You obviously have never used a GPS Navigation Device before. They all have similar issues. Either due to the inaccuracy or interference of the GPS signal at times, or incorrect map data. Neither of which Pioneer is responsible for.

you know Pioneer is not this huge company with a ton of overhead.. they really dont care for feed back.... so seeing that no changes to the Z3 does not surprise me.. I have had my Z1 upgraded now tro Z2 for about 2 years and if they had made some good changes I would buy it. But for now I will wait for the update to go from Z2 to Z3...

Still curious about your installation. If you're really experiencing it being off by 20 meters, you have installation issues. Mine is more like three meters off...maybe five sometimes

I have used many GPS systems, my $600 Lowrance GPS I purchased from Sams Club is doing a better job than this $2000.00 piece of junk mounted in my dash. I realize map data and interference are all factors in the performance of a system but when you put it side by side with other GPS units the results should be like apples and oranges not apples and squash.

Ok-I just got the Z3 but haven't installed it yet, so I do not know the routing and GPS pros and cons (except for what I have read of course). The manual that comes with the unit, however, has a license Agreement on page 11.

It states:

"Pioneer does not warrant that the software will meet your needs or expectations, that operation of the software will be error free or uninterupted, or that all non-conformities can or will be corrected. Furthermore, Pioneer does not make any representations or warranties regarding the use or results of the use of the Software in terms of its accuracy, reliability or otherwise."

On the next page it says:

"In no event shall pioneer be liable for any damages, claim or loss incured by you......blah blah blah"

So basically Pioneer is attempting to absolve themselves of all legal liability. The first statement I quoted however, says that "Pioneer does not make any representations....regarding the results or the use of the software". I beg to differ. They advertise this machine as the best navigation out there.

I haven't used this yet and I have no plans to sue them, but they have the same legal safeguarding as all other corporations over their product. Fortunately this legal verbosity doesn't always hold in court.

I had this unit professionally installed by Custom Sounds here in Texas. They have looked at it several times and concur it is an issue with the hardware; it has been replaced three times. All three units perform with the same inaccuracies.

Still curious about your installation. If you're really experiencing it being off by 20 meters, you have installation issues. Mine is more like three meters off...maybe five sometimes

For those of you who have inquired: My VSS is hooked up, the Pioneer GPS antenna included is front and center of the vehicle mounted on my dash with an unobstructed line of sight to the northern sky and surrounding window view .

Quoting an excerpt from someone else's statement does not necessarily make it true, or even reasonable....again, case in point - G-Dub...

Learn a bit about that 'small' company....

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/AboutPioneer

Dully noted.

Ok-I just got the Z3 but haven't installed it yet, so I do not know the routing and GPS pros and cons (except for what I have read of course). The manual that comes with the unit, however, has a license Agreement on page 11.

It states:

 

"Pioneer does not warrant that the software will meet your needs or expectations, that operation of the software will be error free or uninterupted, or that all non-conformities can or will be corrected. Furthermore, Pioneer does not make any representations or warranties regarding the use or results of the use of the Software in terms of its accuracy, reliability or otherwise."

 

On the next page it says:

 

"In no event shall pioneer be liable for any damages, claim or loss incured by you......blah blah blah"

 

So basically Pioneer is attempting to absolve themselves of all legal liability. The first statement I quoted however, says that "Pioneer does not make any representations....regarding the results or the use of the software". I beg to differ. They advertise this machine as the best navigation out there.

 

I haven't used this yet and I have no plans to sue them, but they have the same legal safeguarding as all other corporations over their product. Fortunately this legal verbosity doesn't always hold in court.

Trust me I realize Pioneer isn't that "small company", why would it be worth the time and energy if they were? It's the perception of the consumer and how they treat that consumer that really matters.

Pioneer + Consumer=Profit take the consumer out of the equation and Pioneer isn’t too profitable are they? Ultimately this is about getting Pioneer to recognize that their customers do have a voice and they better be listening to that voice. This is a model we have seen demonstrated time and time again throughout America. More often than none, those consumers usually end up coming out on top.

Quoting an excerpt from someone else's statement does not necessarily make it true, or even reasonable....again, case in point - G-Dub...

 

Learn a bit about that 'small' company....

 

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/AboutPioneer

Actually, in that equation, if you take out consumer, you end up with Pioneer=Profit.

Anyway, a buddy of mine has been in touch with both Pioneer and TeleAtlas, and he has plenty of time on his hands, and he still lives in the middle of a blank patch of land, although his house and surrounding development are both several years old.

I've been through this with Sony. It takes years to get anywhere and in the end you get a small pittance and the lawyers take most the money once they settle. In the unlikely event it actually sees a court room you'd be at a disadvantage because of the technical complexity of the device. It sad to say but, jury's are usually pretty dim. You'd be better off selling your unit on ebay and buying another companies product.

I had this unit professionally installed by Custom Sounds here in Texas. They have looked at it several times and concur it is an issue with the hardware; it has been replaced three times. All three units perform with the same inaccuracies.

Oh ya, because an installer who messed up will never blame a problem on the product. Instead they will admit their faults and take a hit in labor and material cost and fix your system for free. If I were you I would listen and work WITH the nice people here instead of disregarding there help. They are very knowledgeable about these systems and can likely help you threw some of these problems.

There is NO way I would have had the unit replaced and reinstalled by the same dealer 3 times. If you were not sure after the second time whether it was an installation issue or a product issue, (and I don't believe you still have a clue), regardless of what the installing dealer told you, you should have INSISTED UNDER THREAT OF LAWSUIT that the installing dealer allow you to have the third unit installed by a new competent installer. That's where your THREAT OF LAWSUIT would have been more on target.

That would be the scientific way to get to the root of your problem.

It has been replaced 3 times by the same installer - all 3 units perfom with the same inaccuracies. Inaccuracies that most people on this board have not had when their unit was properly installed. Hmmmmm.

You may very well be organizing a class action lawsuit against the wrong party.

Hopefully your big time lawfirm knows what the term "Malicious Prosecution" means, and might choose to steer you away from your crusade.

Your poll needs a fourth option: I'm somewhat satisfied and can deal with the systems inadequacies. I prefer NOT to pursue legal recourse.

 

Now, normally I'm a very litigious person. However, I understand the intricacies and difficulty of map routing. The size of the database that holds all the routes, directions, permissions must be enormous and is constantly changing. A monumental task to be sure. There are only two real issues with my unit that I am disappointed with: 1) The library organization; no listing of albums under artist search and 2) the learn route feature. I've had my unit for over a year now and the darn thing still doesn't know the route I take home from work EVERYDAY.

 

Other than that, Pioneer was good enough to provide a fix to the overheat/freeze issue and they provide the gracenote updates once or twice a year. Sure, the system/map updates could be cheaper...but I don't think most 'round here pay. They just wait for an image.

 

Overall...I give it a 7.5/8.0 out of 10.

The Garmin Navi in the Kenwoods are very accurate.