All,

After a four month evaluation period with the F700BT, I would like to inform/warn other potential users of my experience.

I had the F700BT installed over the course of an August afternoon. I was excited to be getting so many features for such a small price! The old saying "if it's too good to be true..." comes to mind.

For all you people who think I am just ranting, I have done all the upgrades on the unit and am presenting an honest appraisal of my experience with this unit as both a computer and car-stereo expert of 15-plus years.

First impressions:

I get in the car and turn the unit on. I wait. about 2 minutes later, the music starts playing. I think "two minutes... man, that's a long time. well, at least I have all these features."

I begin driving and I have my music on a USB stick. I flip to the map to see what the navi looks like. The map sticks, draws a little, stops my music, draws a little more, plays some more music, stops my music again, draws some more map, plays some more music, stops my music... and on and on and on. Now I am thinking "OK. this sucks. the unit doesn't even have enough processing power to play an MP3 and refresh its screen at the same time. I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!"

I pull back into the car stereo shop and demand that something be done. I feel as if I have spent a grand on a knock-off no-name MP3 player from Taiwan worth about $20. It's a small stereo store and the manager is resistant to any transaction which will involve money flowing from him back to me (and I won't be going there again either).

The manager insists that "Pioneer doesn't sell things that don't work." Ok, "come out to my car and see for yourself." Once he does, he is amazed. He does some research and finds a firmware upgrade. I will give him credit though, he actually got a competing stereo store to install the upgrade for me (they already had it on an SD card).

A big shock to me was to find out that this P.O.S. is a P.O.S. because it's running a version of Microoft Windows. At least its level of POS-ness makes more sense now. Let me state with absolute certainty that this unit is *NOT* a place where you want an obsese OS running. It's already underpowered so that Pioneer can save a dollar or two per unit; the last thing it needs is bloatware.

With the firmware upgraded the USB music/map problem stopped, but at the cost of the map drawing more slowly... and it was already painfully slow. At this point I know that I don't like this unit, but also that I am stuck with it.

Day 3 through now:

Let me run down the primary features and my experience with them:

Startup:

This unit will not do anything for at least a minute and a half. It might show you some buttons on the screen, but if you try to use them you run the risk of crashing the startup routine and having to wait for it all over again. This happens about 20% to 30% of the time. I am not kidding. If you want music right away in the morning, the only way to get it is to remember to select FM or AM as the source before you turn your car off the night before.

Now that your unit is on and playing music, you can navigate through the pretty icons on the screen. Of course, remember that you're using a preposterously underpowered PC, so when you select something... anything at all... the OS will have to go get it and cache it in RAM first. This will take about 10 seconds. If you get impatient or aren't sure that you clicked the icon and click it again (or click it multiple times), you again run the risk of crashing the OS and having to wait for another startup. Sometimes, just for fun and to reinforce the POS-ness of the device, I do this on purpose just to see it crash. It's fun!

So, every time you go to a screen for the first time after startup, you will incur this ~10 second wait time and the risk of system crash.

Navigation:

This works ok. When you enter an address, it’s a little tough to know how to get it to plot you the route to your destination, but once you know to press “route…†and then “go here now†on the resulting menu, it is fine. Minor quibble. The guys who installed it were nice enough to bypass all the idiotic safety features, so at least I can enter a destination/ etc while I am driving.

Of course, like most things on this system, it is painfully slow to draw the maps or do anything. My brother just showed me a Magellan unit he got for his birthday. It must weigh about 2 ounces and that includes the power source and screen and everything. It is very, very fast and responsive to user input. It doesn’t weigh enough to have powerful hardware on-board, so what gives Pioneer?? In your rush to get a product to market, you bought a terrible OS from Microsoft, used sub-standard hardware on which to run it, and ended up with something so laughably bad that a $100 Magellan kicks the s##t out of it.

Bluetooth:

If you're on the phone and you turn your car on, the F700BT will terminate your call for you. It's kind of a neat feature, really, since we all spend too much time on the phone anyway. Of course, it won't do this right away... but after the two minute start up wait time. It's like a surprise! And, for symmetry, if you're on the phone and you turn your car off, it will also terminate your call, all automatically! Pretty sweet.

So, before calling someone, wait until you get the "mobile phone is connected" message. Once you're on the phone and you get to your destination, you must sit in the car with the unit on to complete the conversation. Adding insult to injury, my car does not have a key position where I can sit without my engine running and have the radio on. So, in my case, I have to sit there with the engine idling.

Do you want to call someone? Ok, no problem. Oops! when you do, you MUST be directed to the map screen. Remember the caching problem I mentioned? Well, if this is the first call you've made, and you weren't looking at the map screen prior to making this call, the unit will have to load the phone software AND the map images. By the time this process is complete (~30 seconds) the person has answered your call, heard nothing but dead air, and has long-since hung up.

An interesting side-note: You know how navigation units make you promise not to drive into the side of a building (even if it asks you to) before it will show you the map? Well, this one does too... unless you get a phone call, then it bypasses the message and goes straight to the map! LOL! I should get someone to call me and then run into a building and the sue Pioneer!! Of course, this is actually Microsoft's fault... #%$@ software.

Anyway, as I was saying, the phone system is RIDICULOUSLY slow when loading the first time. You will fail to connect to the person you've called if they are the first call since boot because they will hang up on you, guaranteed. When I know I will be on the phone in the car, I will call my voice mail as soon as I can then hang up, just so the software is loaded and cached.

Unfortunately, even with the phone software cached, it will still wait about 5 to 10 seconds from the time the party has answered until it makes it possible to communicate with them. Normally, this kind of pause is how people detect telemarketers. The F700BT will simulate this perfectly and, usually, the person you're trying to call will hang up on you before you can get to "Hello! IT'S ME! SAVE ME FROM MY @@#^^!! STEREO!!"

SD card reader:

One feature I was excited about was the SD card… no more CDs or USB dongles… just a nice, clean SD card in the front of the unit. What could be better?

So far, about 10% of the time, the system flips out and is unable to read anything on the card. It doesn’t say anything, it just refuses to list the content or play anything on the card. Sometimes this is also accompanied by a system crash. (Yes, I have tried multiple SD cards… trust me, the problem is in the unit’s software).

No problem, right? Just pull out the card and push it in again. Nope! Ok, well, how about restarting the unit? Nope! THERE IS NO WAY TO RESET THIS UNIT OR TO TURN IT OFF WITHOUT TURNING OFF THE F##KING CAR!! You heard me right. This unit has no “OFF†button. Sure, it has an “OFF†setting, but the unit itself and audio sub-systems are still on. The “OFF†setting is actually a “MUTE†setting. Do you want to drive in silence without the hiss of the speakers? Too bad!

One more point; when you turn the car off and were listening to a CD, then turn the car back on, it remembers where in the track you were (like most stereos). Not so with the SD card! You’ll get into the car, drive for 2 minutes while it starts up, listen to a song *almost* to the end, get to a store… get back in the car, wait 2 more minutes, and then listen to the same song from the very beginning. Sounds like a small problem, right? What about some tracks that are really long (like an hour-long talk on a single track)? Yeah, that really sucks! And, since there’s no seek capability on the SD, you are screwed if you want to get back to where you were on the track.

CD Player:

This part works. Good job pioneer. Hooray. Too bad I haven’t used a CD in 5 years.

Aux-in:

I’ve never used it… probably works just fine.

Summary:

This is, by far, the worst stereo I have ever used. The main selling points for me were the navigation, the Bluetooth, and the SD/USB music systems. All of them are far-below acceptable. After reading of similar experiences with even the much more expensive Pioneer units, I can only recommend: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A PIONEER NAVIGATION UNIT!

Rantingly yours,

Glenn

perhaps it is the unit my 90 runs like great starts up in 30 secs and is a rocket at 45 secs. It sounds like you weren't trying to give it a chance. some people... Sorry but bullshit like this makes me angry. Glenn why don't you just leave avic-411 right now and buy a jvc or something. Nobody cares about your bull-shit

LOL!

I have no experience with the 90, only the F700BT. I deal with everything on this post every day. If I can save one person from my experience, then I've done well. If you disagree, then maybe you should buy a F700BT and see for yourself.

-glenn

I don't know if your mommy didn't give you enough attention as a boy... but, this is not the way to get it loser. Go get some love from a hooker.

Well, at least we're on the same intellectual plane...

I cease to reply to you because that is what you really want it is kinda sad.

...wait.. did you just reply though? hmmm

Are you sure you have the latest firmware? Go into the service info screen and report back what it says

I have music in under 10 seconds

all i see is a guy who is upset with his product and the money he spent on it? Its not like these problems he stated are new, everyone seems to have them so far, he just wrote in a little more detail.

does this guy need a box of tissues or what

" am presenting an honest appraisal of my experience with this unit as both a computer and car-stereo expert of 15-plus years. "

Really? 15-plus years, and an expert no less? You'd think an "expert" would know about firmware upgrades, AND how to do it himself, but I digress.

USB music doesn't work. OK, a given. It's flaky. But if you use an iPod, it works flawlessly (at least for me, apparently). I have music within 20 seconds, and I can change the volume and skip tracks before the unit even fully loads.

I get no disconnections when I turn my car on via my phone, and turning the car off does NOT disconnect my call. I do find I have to manually switch the audio back to the iPhone 3G handset, though. I've had no call issues, or map-drawing issues at all. Yes, it's not blazing to draw the maps from first load, but I also don't need to see EVERY road in the next 5 miles immediately, and it's more than fast enough. I also don't have to wait 10 seconds after pushing a button.

And hey, I got my F700BT for $350 brand new after cashback. So it looks like not only did I get a complete steal, my unit works "pretty" well.

Is it perfect? Nope, but what is.

USB music doesn't work.

wrong, works fine

USB music doesn't work.

 

wrong, works fine

Hehe ok maybe it works. I had trouble with my SD card, not USB, sorry. It was skipping on videos. I feel like the SD interface was more of an afterthought and a way to upgrade the firmware. iPod connectivity is a lot better...

Ok I finally stopped laughing and caught my breath. Dude!!! Most of your complaints apply to the F90BT as well. I have one of those WinCE masterpieces as well and it works well, about like you would expect from something involving Microsoft and and the garbage they create and market as the worlds greatest thing that you simply must have. There really is a special place in hell for those people.

My Bluetooth works about like you said (you hit the nail on the head with that one actually) Mine acts the same way, locking up, droppomg the call into software darkness. I actually have to let my BB Curve get it's $%@* together after the crash and then I can call the person back and explain why I hung up on them. It's a joke really.

What really pisses me off is that these radios were no where near ready for release. Can you imagine what the engineers must have been saying as they released the final versions of these things. "Oh I know it doesn't work yet, errrrr lets go ahead and sell them to the stupid consumers and we can update them later"

I glad someone else has the balls to admit they were robbed as well.

Ok I finally stopped laughing and caught my breath. Dude!!! Most of your complaints apply to the F90BT as well. I have one of those WinCE masterpieces as well and it works well, about like you would expect from something involving Microsoft and and the garbage they create and market as the worlds greatest thing that you simply must have. There really is a special place in hell for those people.

 

My Bluetooth works about like you said (you hit the nail on the head with that one actually) Mine acts the same way, locking up, droppomg the call into software darkness. I actually have to let my BB Curve get it's $%@* together after the crash and then I can call the person back and explain why I hung up on them. It's a joke really.

 

What really pisses me off is that these radios were no where near ready for release. Can you imagine what the engineers must have been saying as they released the final versions of these things. "Oh I know it doesn't work yet, errrrr lets go ahead and sell them to the stupid consumers and we can update them later"

 

I glad someone else has the balls to admit they were robbed as well.

Some of us are having NO dropped calls, no locking up etc. I really think this is phone dependent.

I have a 700 and it works fine. Your unit just sucks. Send it back in. Or sell it and get a Kenwood, whatever stops you from crying about it

Man there are a lot of fanboys on this site... of course, this is an AVIC site...

My objective was simple: Make it so that anyone doing research on a radio would know that the F700BT will likely not be the bargain they were looking for. Pioneer made a terrible product. Simple as that.

WilliamG, since you apparently didn't read all of my post, i clearly said: "I have done all the upgrades on the unit." ...and then you go on to admit that I'm right... so, really, stfu.

thomashohl, thanks for the backup! I am sure intelligent readers will be able to sort the meaningful posts from the moronic "Pioneer RULES, you SUCK!" posts.

-g

Man there are a lot of fanboys on this site... of course, this is an AVIC site...

 

My objective was simple: Make it so that anyone doing research on a radio would know that the F700BT will likely not be the bargain they were looking for. Pioneer made a terrible product. Simple as that.

 

WilliamG, since you apparently didn't read all of my post, i clearly said: "I have done all the upgrades on the unit." ...and then you go on to admit that I'm right... so, really, stfu.

 

thomashohl, thanks for the backup! I am sure intelligent readers will be able to sort the meaningful posts from the moronic "Pioneer RULES, you SUCK!" posts.

 

-g

You really are a troll. There is such a thing as expressing your opinion without coming across as a total cretin. Congratulations on getting someone to install your firmware update for you. 15 years of experience clearly has taken you to a level I can never hope to attain. Now I'll go back to enjoying my working F700BT. But I must be kidding myself, right?

What part of "I" don't you understand? I installed it. Me. Not someone else, not you, not aunt Jemima.

And my F700BT works. It's just that it sucks when it works. I guess you just prefer that... more power to you.

You really are starting to sound like a troll, how does your last couple posts make you any different than the "moronic" "fanboys"? (yes, other than the opposite I know).

I really like my system but I fully admit it still needs a lot of work. I didn't really read your first post either after the first part since it completely discredits you. If yours doesn't play music for 2 minutes after it starts up you're either a liar or have a defective system. Yes it could still boot up quite a bit faster but come on...

LOL!!!

Sorry, mtbjoe, Let me sum that up: "I didn't read your post, but I think you're a troll anyway." You make such a powerful a persuasive argument that I am STUNNED into silence!

Go get some cookies. It's your bedtime soon... and I am sorry to be the one to drop this on you guys, but trolls don't really exist. Since I am not off-topic, I can only assume that's what you mean. Call me insulting, arrogant, or even a philistine, but resorting to mythical creatures... well, lets just say that my credibility is not what suffers.

LOL...idiot

Why would I need to keep reading when you're first "impression" is a flat out lie? As I mentioned you lost all credibility so why waste any more of my time reading the rest?

And talk about not reading stuff I clearly mentioned your last couple of posts make you sound like a troll not the first one, that just makes you a liar.

Sure it does. I LOVE making up pages of inaccurate information.

It's all true, and it's not a defective unit. If you read the post, it can be up to 2 minutes before full functionality is online, which includes bluetooth. After the last update (2.0) it now plays music in about 1 minute... 50 or so seconds to be exact. That's still WAY too long given competing devices.

Now, you're welcome to discuss with me the details of my post. However, since a "troll" is someone who goes off topic or tries to get all personal/aggresive, I think you're the only one between us that qualifies. Do you want to resort to more name-calling or are you done with your tantrum?

What part of "I" don't you understand? I installed it. Me. Not someone else, not you, not aunt Jemima.

 

And my F700BT works. It's just that it sucks when it works. I guess you just prefer that... more power to you.

Here's a quote:

"He does some research and finds a firmware upgrade. I will give him credit though, he actually got a competing stereo store to install the upgrade for me (they already had it on an SD card). "

So let's recap. HE did the research. HE got a COMPETING stereo store (like we care) to install the upgrade FOR YOU.

So that was all him. Not you. Not Aunt Jemima.

So you come on here and rant with all your years' experience, and yet you still weren't capable of figuring out if there was a firmware upgrade or not. I'm just guessing your stereo isn't installed correctly, configured properly, or you're about as capable of running your F700BT as you are understanding whether you or someone else installed your firmware upgrade.

 

Here's a quote:

 

"He does some research and finds a firmware upgrade. I will give him credit though, he actually got a competing stereo store to install the upgrade for me (they already had it on an SD card). "

 

So let's recap. HE did the research. HE got a COMPETING stereo store (like we care) to install the upgrade FOR YOU.

 

So that was all him, not you or Aunt Jemima. So you come on here and rant with all your years' experience, and yet you still weren't capable of figuring out if there was a firmware upgrade or not. I'm just guessing your stereo isn't configured properly, or you're about as capable of running your F700BT as you are understanding whether you or someone else installed your firmware upgrade.

*sigh*

The initial upgrade was done at the shop in August. If you do a little research, you'll see that the last one was done at the end of October. I have kept the unit current... but who is doing it doesn't matter anyway.

Go ahead and argue about someone's credentials. Go ahead and make this some kind of argument about me, the end-user. The fact is that the F700BT is barely capable of bringing its features to use. This fact is substantiated by other users in this and other forums. Even the people who don't agree that it is a bad product will simultaneously admit that is has the faults that I pointed out. Its just that they decide they can overlook the faults and call the unit "good."

Be objective, FFS!