Agreed. With no hard drive you will have no music storage. Also, there is only one disk slot so you will have to take the nav disk in and out like the N series to watch movies or listen to a CD in the unit. The hard drive in the Z1 adds things like text to speech, quicker routing time, and various other things to the Z1 that the D3 will probably not have

You misunderstood--The Z2 will have a lower retail price and cost than the Z1. Electronics always depreciate like that. Z1 MSRP was 2500, Z2 will apparently be 2200. Z2 retail $2249, Z2 will be less. Previous pioneer software upgrades have been around $250 retail, so if you can get an awesome deal on a Z1 now, and buy the software upgrade when it comes out, you will end up with the same deck

So, if they are 2,000 what is the 500 dollar upgrade from the Z1?

 

Do you guys think the software will cost 500, if there is a software update?

 

I'm leaning towards the Z1 if you plan on making a purchase for one or the other...

 

I'm still eager to hear some bad-ass new features, so whoever is at CES right now please report what you finD!!

You misunderstood--The Z2 will have a lower retail price and cost than the Z1. Electronics always depreciate like that. Z1 MSRP was 2500, Z2 will apparently be 2200. Z2 retail $2249, Z2 will be less. Previous pioneer software upgrades have been around $250 retail, so if you can get an awesome deal on a Z1 now, and buy the software upgrade when it comes out, you will end up with the same deck

The original price for the Z1 was also $2249/$2250

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v ... 61,00.html

http://www.gadgetell.com/2006/05/pionee ... -dash-gps/

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/060629/0137565.html

It would be nice to get the update to the Z1's to make them Z2's. It might even be something that might be posted to a online site for people to download for free. Once one gets out they might be shared. That would be illegal but you never know.

I just installed a Z1 with a December 2006 build. I did notice one difference in the AV button (the button to the left of the Menu button). There is a slightly raised portion of the button. I guess this is similar to a keyboard so you know how to orient yourself without looking at the unit. I've only had it in for a couple of days. I have to return it to the owner this Friday. I'll play with it more to see if I see any other differences.

Actually MSRP was $2500, MAP was $2250. The Z2 MSRP is $2200, so MAP will be lower. Just like every consumer electronics brand, MSRP is inflated over what it will really sell for at authorized dealers

You misunderstood--The Z2 will have a lower retail price and cost than the Z1. Electronics always depreciate like that. Z1 MSRP was 2500, Z2 will apparently be 2200. Z2 retail $2249, Z2 will be less. Previous pioneer software upgrades have been around $250 retail, so if you can get an awesome deal on a Z1 now, and buy the software upgrade when it comes out, you will end up with the same deck

 

The original price for the Z1 was also $2249/$2250

 

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v ... 61,00.html

http://www.gadgetell.com/2006/05/pionee ... -dash-gps/

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/060629/0137565.html

 

It would be nice to get the update to the Z1's to make them Z2's. It might even be something that might be posted to a online site for people to download for free. Once one gets out they might be shared. That would be illegal but you never know.

Actually MSRP was $2500, MAP was $2250. The Z2 MSRP is $2200, so MAP will be lower. Just like every consumer electronics brand, MSRP is inflated over what it will really sell for at authorized dealers

When I pre-ordered this around January 06 price listed everywhere was as high as $2250. Some places did have it lower. They might have had it listed higher in 05, I didn't see it then, but when I saw this in Jan (didn't get it till March ish) it was $2250. I never saw it over $2250 even listed at Pioneerelectronics.com. Maybe some review sites had it listed higher than that or maybe Pioneer told other people (non publicly) to sell it for more, but no one ever listed it for more than $2250... At least not in 06. I'm not a pioneer dealer, just a consumer and just remember what I was pining over for months

wait a minute, i bought mine in November 2006 and i only got mine for 1400.00, i didn't know it was that high......

wait a minute, i bought mine in November 2006 and i only got mine for 1400.00, i didn't know it was that high......

It used to be. Yah, some of us even pre-ordered it for that price But as whtcrxghst said, everything keeps getting cheaper. Just the law of the land. I remember paying $3000 for my 286 PC. No one would pay that anymore

What is to stop us from copying over the HDD from a Z2 to a Z1. Then all the updates would be free! or so to speak. 1 major advantage to the D3

What is to stop us from copying over the HDD from a Z2 to a Z1. Then all the updates would be free! or so to speak. 1 major advantage to the D3

Unless the hardware is slightly different and they compiled the software with a check to make sure we didn't do this. Of course if they put out a Z1 to Z2 update, I'm sure that can be proliferated

What do you guys think about the Z2 software update and its effect on our BYPASS?

*If you already have the post june unit with the bypass.

What do you guys think about the Z2 software update and its effect on our BYPASS?

*If you already have the post june unit with the bypass.

I would guess, and none of us know for sure till it happens (if ever) but since all the D series Avic's use the same bypass as the post july Z1's... and the pre-july Z1's were "upgraded" to use the same bypass, I would guess that Pioneer wants their units using this "new" Z bypass and the standard D bypass so I would guess that anyone with a 2 wire ground would keep it and it would keep working. Every Pioneer nav system has a bypass. I would guess they would keep that going.

LET's SUM THIS UP GUYS!

to all who have been following this thread, isn't it pretty clear (so far) that the new Z2 won't be that much different than the Z1???

If you were to be buying your first Nav unit (ME!) it seems as though the Z1 is the way to go. I know you guys were throwing around the MSRP at like $2,200 for the Z1, but lets be realistic, they are $1,500 to $1,600 bucks now. I would bet that when the Z2 is first released it will be selling for more than that. In time, obviously the price will drop, but it will still cost more for the next few months. So even if their software upgrade (that we are hoping they release) costs $250, the Z1 would still be cheaper. But, we will all be hearing some new stuff once CES ends in a few days, so i could be wrong....

well i'm trying to head to vegas this week (don't know what day) and i'll try to make it to the CES but if not the AVN...

The Z2 will still not be compatible with DVD-MP3s or HDD-MP3s. Does it really cost that much more to give us those features? I don't even think we'd need a hardware change.

As for the DVD portion, I don't know for sure that it would just be a software change. The D3 and 5900DVD are both $1000 and they play mp3 DVD so I think its just an outdated drive in the Z1/2

MP3's on a DVD are NOT a hardware change. The Z1 can play DVD movies which is just reading files off a data DVD. So we know it can read files off a data DVD. But with the Z1 when you put in a data DVD it looks for the Video_ts folder and plays a movie. It's software to look for that or the MP3 files. It's just reading data off a medium. So it would be a software update.

As for what the Z2 will really do, the features sound minimal compared to the Z1. It sounds like (from what has been announced) that it's mostly a software update and rebranded with a 2 instead of a 1.

Isn't the Z series the flagship model of pioneer GPS systems? Why is it that the D3 is expected to be able to play Divx and not the Z2? The D3 also has a random function, which the Z series still doesn't have.

The D3 also has a random function, which the Z series still doesn't have.

You mean functions just show up when ever and you don't know what they will be? Or when you put in a destination you can select random and it will route you to some random location... if you want to go exploring? Or do you mean it has a shuffle songs when you are playing? Because as far as I know there is a shuffle or random feature while playing CD's, Library Songs, and Ipod (maybe more, but just the ones I used).

So until we hear the cost on the new Z2, the Z1 is the way to go.... I'm sure if all of us put our heads together (like we are doing right now) we can configure the Z1 to have most of the new software features of the Z2.

So, who wants to sell me a new Z1 with warranty??? lol!

I'll buy today!

As for the DVD portion, I don't know for sure that it would just be a software change. The D3 and 5900DVD are both $1000 and they play mp3 DVD so I think its just an outdated drive in the Z1/2

This is a legal decision by Pioneer. I read where they stated they could not control piracy if they supported MP3s on the Z1. Ripping an audio CD they can claim the owner must have had an original. They simply don't want to get sued by the RIAA.

As for the DVD portion, I don't know for sure that it would just be a software change. The D3 and 5900DVD are both $1000 and they play mp3 DVD so I think its just an outdated drive in the Z1/2

This is a legal decision by Pioneer. I read where they stated they could not control piracy if they supported MP3s on the Z1. Ripping an audio CD they can claim the owner must have had an original. They simply don't want to get sued by the RIAA.

How would this differ from all the MP3 players that are on the market?

The Pioneer inno XM radio plays MP3... again how would this differ?

I think they are holding off on this feature to be a selling point on a newer model. Should have been the Z2 but I guess its going to be the Z3.

I hope Pioneer really doesn't believe that because that's BS. The Z1's manual states that audio CD-Rs cannot be ripped to the HDD but no one here has ever had a problem ripping CD-Rs. And I bet most of these CD-Rs were made from pirated MP3s. If they're were really watching their asses, they would have been strict on the "only original CD" ripping part. Pioneer is just as bad as Verizon with all the feature crippling. If they wanted to, all they have to do is a software update that enables MP3 playback on the HDD and DVDs. We know it's capable of reading MP3s on CD-Rs, why not DVDs and the HDD?

Well now that the Z1 is practically back-ordered everywhere...i'm stuck with waiting for the Z2...

Don't know if it was mentioned here, but I met with the Pioneer folks at CES and the 2-DVD upgrade to make the Z1 EXACTLY the same as the Z2 will be $200. I also met with the Tele Atlas Reps at CES (they do the maps for the AVIC, and they claim the routing algorithms and the route-learning algorithms are supposed to be a lot better than before.

TeleAtlas bought a competitor a couple of years back and have been working all this time to mesh together their two map databases. This new map update that the Z2 will have is supposed to be the intro of the combined database.

The new POI icons are nice (you actually see a McDonalds logo on the map as it comes into proximity, for example. But more importantly, they say the address routing is supposed to be much better because they assigned an actual Latitude/longitude coordinate to each physical address, making the routing much more accurate (in the past, they would split a block in sections according to number range, so if you went to #22 main st, it would route you to like the 1-50 section of main st. They say they have assigned coordinates to about 40 million addresses and that's supposed to be like 40% of all the US addresses. They expect to finish the other 60% in a year.

I guess we'll have to see how much better the routing will be once the Z2s come out and can do side by side comparisons.