This aftenoon I spoke with Ray in customer service at Pioneer in Long Beach, CA. He was a very friendly gentleman but with limited knowledge.

We discussed the flaws of the Z1 and the upcoming improvements, or lack there of for the Z2. Ray stated that customer service is limited when it comes to issues regarding improvements that were made to the Z2 over the Z1 and that their knowledge base will not be very effective until they have actually received the Z2 from Japan and have been able to thoroughly test and play around with it. He further stated that engineering is the department that focuses on improving their products and are the ones that take suggestions and forward them on to the design department in Japan. But he then went on to say that engineering in California doesn't discuss matters with the consumer public. So I further probed by asking "How can someone like me get informtion to engineering with regards to improvements that I would like to see made?" Ray then stated that I would have to open a case file and explain what improvements I would like to see made. So we did this over the phone and the file is now open.

I first asked Ray if lower case letters could be used to edit titles in the library as well as in phone book entries and he said that he was pretty certain that this could be done. He then placed me on hold for 10 minutes while he went to find out. Upon his return he stated that as of now it could not be done and that there is no sign of that having been changed for the Z2. I then said to Ray "It's amazing that this feature is available on a $19.95 cell phone but not on a $2200 navigational unit". Ray chuckled in his friendly foreign voice and explained that there is a lot more to designing this kind of feature in a nav unit than it is to do the same in a cell phone. He said that it would essentially require revamping the entire system. But stated that it is not out of the question for next year's Z3, or whatever it will be called next year.

This became suggestion number 1 in the case file. Next, I recommended better navigation, specifically improved re-routing after taking a wrong turn and more accurate ETA times. Following this was improved IPOD reaction time, colorful SIRIUS channel icons like those of XM and finally, the ability to save MP3 files to the hard drive.

Ray went on to say that the Z2 is basically complete other then minor tweaking and that any of my suggestions would not be considered until the drawing board was open for next year's model, which has not yet occured. He did offer words of encouragement by telling me that engineering doe take suggestions and criticisms quite seriously and that one or all of these issues could possibly be resolved in the Z3.

He also went on to say that the Z1 will definitely have the ability to be upgraded to the Z2 and that this upgrade will not be made available until the Spring and will most likely be simultaneous with the release of the Z2, which is slated for April 1, 2007. He was not sure of the cost nor how the upgrade will be delivered (disc or download) but it will most likely be on a disc. The upgrade will be primarily be weighted on the new an improved TeleAtlas mapping.

Lastly, I asked Ray if he was familiar with AVIC411.com and he said that he was and that he and others have and still do browse it from time to time. I asked him of the possibilty that someone from Pioneer could be made available to do a scheduled chat session to discuss various topics and issues and Ray regretfully stated that unfortunately their legal department would not allow this to happen.

So, there you have it. Obviously, I do not yet know what we will benefit from, if anything, as a direct result from my conversion with Ray, but at least I have been given the opportunity to explain our issues of concern.

And for whatever its worth, I now have a case number and will contact Pioneer on a regular basis for updates to this opened case file with the hopes that Pioneer will listen to me and it's loyal customer base, now and into the future. I will post feedback whenever new information is obtained.

Cheers,

Kevin

Thanks! That was very informative. Next time you talk to them ask them if they can add Sirius Navigation Traffic.... similar to the current XM Nav Traffic.

that was really useful. thanks for that one

Sweet.

Kevin,

Thanks for contacting them! I work for a very popular Mechanical Design Software company, and we're 100% driven by customer enhancement requests. It's so unfortunate that so many Americans are so apathetic about suggestions. Most product design companies actually do listen to their customers. Call or write them!!!

Ironically, Apple is one of the few companies that doesn't. Steve Jobs pretty much runs that company with an iron fist, and considers outside suggestions redundant.

The biggest disappointment with my Z1 is the iPod integration. If Apple allowed for an open platform, they'd be tons of adapters that could run through a simple USB interface... AHHH, I just had to vent...

Thanks for opening the gates with Pioneer...

Chris

Thanks! That was very informative. Next time you talk to them ask them if they can add Sirius Navigation Traffic.... similar to the current XM Nav Traffic.

Howard Stern's Voice: "Uhhh there's traffic up there buddy. Don't you agree Robin? I would get off the next exit. Tell 'em Fred. Actuall I don't care cause I'm driving the opposite way going out to the Hamptons for 2 months! Enjoy the replays of shows I bought from CBS from 10 years ago for $2million! Hoo Hoo"

PaisanNYC, Nice parody. Pretty funny stuff right there.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bajateam2, I agree with you about Steve Jobs' iron fist. Apple does not = aftermarket. Try rounding up all of the needed components to build your own Dual Quad PowerMac. Not nearly as easy nor as cheap as building a powerful PC. Apple likes to keep everything under lock and key.

And I agree that product design companies do pay attention to customer feedback.

We should also keep in mind that Pioneer is a Japanese based company and their technological way of thinking may not be in line with that of the American consumer; meaning that, lower case letter editing, for example, may have not crossed their minds as being an important factor in the AVIC-Z1 simply because their language does not distinguish a difference between upper and lower case lettering.

So until someone has told them that this feature is important, they may have never considered it an issue. This is just a small example.

Let's face it, all companies are money and growth driven, at least the successful ones are, and how can a company grow and continue to sell its products if they don't know what it is that it's customers truly want, or want improved. Does this make sense to you?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jimmy303, jaytrey & Itchy thank you very much for the words of encouragement and itchy, I will certainly ask Pioneer the next time that I speak with them about the possibility o adding SIRIUS traffic to the Z1. I am a SIRIUS fan myself and this would be a very nice feature to have.

Beyond AM....Beyond FM....Beyond XM....SIRIUS Satellite Radio!

That one's for you PaisanNYC

Cheers Everyone!

PaisanNYC, Nice parody. Pretty funny stuff right there.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beyond AM....Beyond FM....Beyond XM....SIRIUS Satellite Radio!

 

That one's for you PaisanNYC

 

Cheers Everyone!

See! I like someone with a sense of humor, no matter how wicked I may be LOL Welcome to the family

My biggest disappointment is the navagation. It is well stated by Jim in the forum D1/D2/D3 under the topic Navagation sucks. The topic is about the Z1 but was placed in the wrong forum. If you think the Z1 is a good nav unit just do what he suggest and go to map quest put in the same route and map quest beats it every time. I will continue to call pioneer every week if necessary to get what I over paid for.

daveva,

I can certainly appreciate your stand on this. I too feel that the navigational feature of the Z1 leaves much to be desired and has plenty of room for improvement. The good news is, and I forgot to mention this in my original post, Ray at Pioneer stated that the upcoming upgrade for going from Z1 to Z2 will be a major improvement over the oiginal Z1 model in the way of accuracy, improved graphics and enhanced route learning.

Let us not forget guys that we all own the 1st generation of Pioneer's AVIC Z-Series. It was inevitable that it would be imperfect. Listen, as long as Pioneer is moving forward on this product, I will kick back, relax and watch the AVIC Z-Series evolves over time.

Fine wine gets better with age. So relax little buddy. It will get better.

Actually, the more I use my Z1, the more I like it.

I was at CES and got inside info on the Z2 and got actual photos if anyone is interested... the update for the Z1 will make it exactly like the Z2... the Z2 is just shipping with the update installed per say...

Sure, can you post the photos on this thread? Also, please indulge us with some juicy insider information. After all, we're living in the Information Age, are we not? We want information!

Like I said... the pioneer rep and the CES booth told me that everything the Z2 has will be available as an upgrade on the Z1... he said that in a few weeks we should be seeing an update for the map software... he said they can actually go in and update it on the fly... kinda cool.

Did the rep tell you what the cost of the map update will be? Also, what will be the cost to fully update from the Z1 to Z2?

He probably was referring to the TeleAtlas page where you can input errors. I use it when something pisses me off enough times

Did the rep tell you what the cost of the map update will be? Also, what will be the cost to fully update from the Z1 to Z2?

Nah I didn't get into that... I got upset when I found out they were marketing a new player when it was just the same old thing with a new update... who knows... we will see. He was telling me about the bluetooth update that is supposedly out that fixes the echo problem... anyway

I just read in the "Z2 Introduced" thread that the upgrade will be $200.00 and will be on 2 DVDs. I guess I can live with that. But I'm going to wait until some guinea pigs on this forum, upgrade theirs first to hear if its worth it.

Hey, I have an idea! Why don't we all chip in and just ship the disks around? 200 Z1 owners = $1 per Z2 upgrade. Wow what a bargain!!!

Hey, I have an idea! Why don't we all chip in and just ship the disks around? 200 Z1 owners = $1 per Z2 upgrade. Wow what a bargain!!!

That sounds like a good idea to me. Or...we can get a pretty reliable person like Ducatiboy and have him buy the update and we can pay him like 5-10 bucks for copies to cover the cost of the discs, time, and shipping. I think most people here would be willing to do it and in the end he'll make a bit of money for being the guinea pig and he'll get to keep the originals. Or...200 of us can pitch in a buck, have Ducatiboy buy it, and he can make torrents for us all to download. What do you think, Ducati?

Now we're talking. Let's do it. I'm all for it. Come on Ducatiboy. What's it gonna be?

I don't want to get into too much legal hot water on this. I'll have to see what the legal documents are with the update. If they just charge you to get a copy of the disks, I'm sure we can work something out. If they make it like "$200 for your update and you have to destroy the disks afterwards" or something, I might be a little hesitant to get pioneer pissed off at me.

They'll probably try the same thing they did to the majority of the people who were selling burned copies of the navi discs. I mean the update discs for the z are pretty much the same idea right.

They'll probably try the same thing they did to the majority of the people who were selling burned copies of the navi discs. I mean the update discs for the z are pretty much the same idea right.

I never heard of this.... what happened.... what did they try to do to people? Threaten them? Sue them? I was just curious.

why wouldnt the disks be available like the cndv60 stuff? why would we have to pitch in? I doubt there is 200 z1 owners/members here

They'll probably try the same thing they did to the majority of the people who were selling burned copies of the navi discs. I mean the update discs for the z are pretty much the same idea right.

 

I never heard of this.... what happened.... what did they try to do to people? Threaten them? Sue them? I was just curious.

Friend of mine was sent a cease and desist order I think it's called. Basically said if he didn't stop selling the copies they (pioneer) would take legal action against him.

Friend of mine was sent a cease and desist order I think it's called. Basically said if he didn't stop selling the copies they (pioneer) would take legal action against him.

That's what I would be worried about.

The cndv60 software is around by way of pirating (Hence lots of the torrent links were hosted on Thepiratesbay website! LOL)

 

It really is a sticky situation here. I think the license will probably state that the purchase of the dvd's allow one license per purchase.

Yah, before anything was "publically" traded on this forum, we would have to see how the license is worded.

Maybe even after the update the disks might explode in 60 seconds or some other Mission Impossible like thing....