Has anyone come across this problem before? I've installed into a Toyota GT86 (aka Sion FR-S and Subaru BRZ) and when I start the engine there is a delay of a goo minute before the unit starts...and I'm not talking about being ready, I mean any sign of life at all. After a minute it then gives the Pioneer Navigate splash screen and then the infamous "Loading...".

Sometimes though it's either immediate or quite soon. Doesn't seem to be related to battery (GT86 is known for weak battery) as engine starts fist time and also after a long drive (that charges the battery) it isn't always faster.

Currently connected:

FM antenna

USB2 to dash USB socket via retention adapter. Makes no difference if nothing plugged into it.

No DAB antenna connected - haven't got one yet.

GPS antenna (Pioneer supplied mag-mount)

Hands free mic

Power antenna powers FM antenna amplifier but this supposedly is only 50mA so shouldn't be too much draw.

Parking brake - grounded to main harness ground wire.

I tried updating firmware from 1.01 to 1.03 but it made no difference.

Could just be a faulty unit but it's odd as it works fine once started. Any thoughts?

Many thanks,

Gareth

The accessory connection getting power is what tells the unit to turn on. Have you confirmed that connection is solid, and gets power as soon as you turn the key?

Thanks 493008. Fairly sure it does as I poked it with a multimeter when I was checking the voltage coming out the power antenna remote on line. Also, it doesn't go through the whole 'Choose you language' setup routing so I'm daily sure it's not that the Acc and Batt leads are swapped.

I'm seeing the same thing with my Subaru BRZ (manual transmission) and my NEX8100.  Both with stock amp/speakers and the custom amp/speakers I installed.

Only seems to happen with engine start and pretty much works every time when you put the car in ACC mode (I have a push button start).  My current workaround is kick ACC on and then immediately start the engine and it boots right up.  Otherwise, if you let it sit it does eventually boot up.

Thought it was the harness connections at first.  Though I have tried both the harness I assembled and pre-assembled harnesses from Enfig that are a pioneer to universal, universal to Toyota connection.

So for whatever reason, when the car has been sitting for a while, the radio isn't detecting ACC immediately during engine start.  Though it works almost every time (there was one time it didn't) in ACC.

So ACC voltage fluctuation at start that the radio gets confused by?  I'm hoping it could be fixed by firmware, but not sure.  Otherwise, both of us have the same hardware issue with the same vehicle? 

Thanks Blackforge that's really helpful to know. Pioneer here just said it sounded like a faulty unit and to get it changed...but I just had a feeling it would be a waste of time and postage.

I thought it was working when not mounted in the dash but could well have been that I was only using Acc when not mounted. I'll try to test acc before engine start and also see if I can get a voltage reading on the Acc line when starting...although I'd expect voltage drop while the engine is cranking. I wonder whether there is anything odd about push-button start (you do have that on your car, right?) that means the voltage does something different like 0,12,7,12V as it cranks rather than 0,12,7,0,12V where a key is being turned...?

Yes, I have a push button start and proximity keys.  I was also curious about the battery itself maybe not being quite up to snuff as well and considered swapping it.

There's certainly a known weakness on UK models. Apparently some of the cells die:

http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/flat-battery_topic2085.html

On the other hand mine starts first time and doesn't seem to have trouble cranking.

Just a small update.  Spoke to Pioneer support in the UK and they haven't seen this issue before.  They say they've got a unit installed in a Subaru BRZ with push-button start and it works fine.   Next step is to get a multimeter on the acc line and see exactly what happens when you push 'start'.  Not sure if my multimeter will read fast enough though...but worth a shot.

Just a thought could be a canbus problem. I have a SEAT Leon, and it does not have an ignition wire, but switches on through the canbus system. My unit can take up to 45 sec to start sometimes. Most Leon owners run a separate ignition wire to operate their after market units.

Koush

Thanks Koush. That at least explains why Pioneer were asking about can bus! It's available on the car but not understood by the head unit apparently even with a Maestro unit. It's possible they've done something odd with the Acc wire but the oem unit turned on fine so I'm suspecting it's something odd about the voltage it's seeing as the engine cranks. I've bid on an oscilloscope on ebay to see if I can get a decent idea of what it does. There is an Option connector with an acc line but I'd imagine it'll be the same. Wonder if a relay with the permanent live as supply and acc as trigger would work. Guess I'm not going to know until I get something a bit faster than a multimeter on it. I promise to post back if I get an answer though!

I have a 2015 Forester XT with the keyless start. I am encountering the slow start up with the gt86 brethren w/ the keyless start with my AVIC 8100NEX. I was wondering if putting a bigger battery would help. I just noticed my car has a whimpy 330 CCA battery. 

Not sure if I'm honest. I know there have been some battery problems on the GT86 and that it's under spec'd. Not sure if the Forester is similarly afflicted. It might help - and if you try it, I'd be interested in the result. It could mask the problem rather than fix it...but if it works, does that matter?!

I'll get a reading on the Acc line as soon as I get some kit to do it and see what's happening. A fix may be possible once we know what's happening or otherwise if we can tell Pioneer that it's not just one person having the problem, they may be more willing to investigate.

Here's a test. Before you start your car; engage the "push start." Immediately, follow up by a standard push start procedure (foot on brake and push start). If the test works; the head unit should have immediately started. 

I was told that it may be more beneficial to use the 12v red wire from the ignition directly. Can someone validate? 

If I push Start without the clutch down so that it turns the ignition comes on without cranking the engine the head unit comes on. I can then start the engine and it comes on again. I've just got hold of an oscilloscope so as soon as I get time to pull it all apart again, I'll get a trace of the voltage of both the permanent live and ignition live while I immediately start the engine. I'll compare it to the Option Connector which lurks just to the left of the radio bay (on a RHD GT86) to see if that would be any better.

Hi all. Just an update. I've checked it out with an oscilloscope and learned....absolutely nothing. Voltage drop like you'd expect when cranking but nothing odd or different that I can see between acc and start.

I've just installed a DAB/FM antenna so made two changes which have had zero effect: run the antenna amp from ignition rather than power antenna lead in case it was drawing too much power. Taken both batt and acc power from the Option Connector instead of radio loom. Not a fix but thought it might be helpful to know what doesn't work.

Thanks for the hard work and sharing Cenedd

No problem. Just wish it were a solution I was posting! I can't help but think it's something like the head unit thinking the battery is flat and refusing to start until it's convinced the battery is healthy...buy Pioneer say it doesn't do that.

I know you can get massive capacitors for when you have ludicrous speakers...is there anything more sensibly sized (and priced) that would smooth the voltage out on either the ACC line or battery live so the head unit doesn't see the voltage drop while the engine is cranking?

Was asking about suitable capacitors on a more general forum and they're of the opinion that my battery may be the issue. That would make some sense as although the engine starts fine, the voltage drop is significant. That ties in with what I've heard that the battery is spec'd only just high enough to work. I'm going to borrow the battery from my old car after I've charged it (charger in post) so will solve two problems. Will let you know if it works...unless anyone me beats me to trying it!

Other forum thread for reference: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=370115

Tried the battery from my old car and it doesn't fit.  Terminals are reversed and the leads from the car not long enough to reach the other side   Will be picking up an AGM battery from someone in the owner's club to try that but have to drive a long way so waiting to tie it in with visiting family.  If anyone gets a chance to try another battery I'd love to know whether this is going to help before dropping £70 GBP on a battery that MIGHT fix the problem!

I don't think this is a voltage issue, but instead a timing one. While I don't have 'push to start', I have seen this in my truck.

Most cars disconnect accessory circuits while the starter is engaged. So the unit sees power when the ignition is on, power is removed while cranking, and restored after the starter is disengaged. I normally put in the key and turn the switch directly to the crank position. When I would do this, I would occasionally see the long delay in the unit booting up. But when I turn the switch to ON and leave it there for a second or two before moving it to the crank position, I have never seen it.

My guess is that when the power ON-OFF-ON sequence is within a certain interval, the unit gets confused as whether to power up, and the delay occurs. I don't have an answer for those 'push to start' users as to how they can avoid this interval other than to do whatever it is you have to do to get the ignition on for a second or two before you engage the starter.

Thanks for that. It's really helpful to know that it's not just push-to-start that has this problem as Pioneer denied all knowledge of the problem when I spoke to them.

Ignition live definitely goes off (0V) while the engine cranks.

I can also confirm this same issue. NEX 4100 and 2015 Subaru Forester Touring. The trick of push-to-start without holding in break to start ACC works, but cold starting car sometimes takes the NEX unit a good minute to start up. 

I've spoken again to Pioneer UK support.  They wanted me to send my unit off to an authorised service centre but given that some of you are experiencing the same issue, I'm fairly sure that if this unit gets put on a bench and 12V applied to both feeds, it'll work fine and be sent back (probably after weeks) with no fault found. They've agreed to have a discussion about it internally and see if there's anything that they can suggest.  I've passed on the oscilloscope traces I took and a link to this thread to show others with the same issue.  Will let you know what comes from it.

Gareth

2015 Scion FR-S Release Series 1 with the same issue here.  Manual, push button start etc.  8100 and OEM Audio + plug and play amp/dual sub.  Had the 8000 prior to this and changed to 8100 for Android Auto.  This startup issue is the only real issue I've had with this unit but the randomness is driving me batty as well.  If anyone hears of a solution hit me up.  I have lost but almost all faith in Pioneers tech support lines based on past experiences.

I may have good news as mine may be fixed.

Did a battery swap last night.  This morning the car and the radio started right up.  The car seemed to turn over much quicker and I think this may be what is causing the sensing delays of the radio.  I've only started it twice today, but the overnight start is very good sign in my opinion.

FYI:  I used a Diehard Platinum Group 35 battery.  This is a re-badged Odyssey battery for the internationals.

Edit:  4 times now and the radio has started up immediately every time.