A friend just brought his brand new Magellan 4250 along on a 400 mile round trip. I was amazed at how much better the routing was when compared to what my Z2 came up with and how well the voice command worked.

If that little 41/2" handheld $369 wonder can do that, then how come my $2000 Avic can't?? The Avic routing once again took me on needless detours while the Magellan picked the same routing that we had been given on Google maps prior to our departure. 17 miles shorter and definately faster to the destination.

We had a lot of fun trying to get the Z2 bitch to understand voice commands that we were giving and what she came up with when she repeated what she thought we said. It's one way to kill some time while travelling, but it's totally useless.

However the more limited commands on the Magellan worked perfectly every time and there was no need to push anything to get into voice command. A simple spoken "Magellan" put voice command to work.

What a treat.

Pioneer I hope you're paying attention. Get a Magellan and see how much you can learn.

For the money we pay we deserve better.

actually for the money we pay you get what u get. considering what the avic is i think its worth every dollar! what kind of amp does the megellan have? hows the ipod interface.... u see where im going.

dont mean to be a dick but i am working late tonight!

All though you have a valid point, and a good one, but the Z2 was designed for navigation too. If the navigation doesn't really work, then thats like paying for a $2000 Ipod/cd/dvd head unit (which there are several out there for a lot less then $2000)

There is a way in the Z2 to adjust the routing options. Try them and see. You can also choose to have it shopw different routes and you pick one.

The Z2 is a very powerful tool. It has some issues, all of them do, but I am glad i got mine. I also have a Iway 250C and I have used it at the same time as I was traveling with the Z2 and sometimes the Lowrance works better and sometime the Z2 works better. It happens.

There is a way in the Z2 to adjust the routing options. Try them and see. You can also choose to have it shopw different routes and you pick one.

The Z2 is a very powerful tool. It has some issues, all of them do, but I am glad i got mine. I also have a Iway 250C and I have used it at the same time as I was traveling with the Z2 and sometimes the Lowrance works better and sometime the Z2 works better. It happens.

I think the Z2's interface is falling behind some of the competitors.

Is it possible to get a fresh interface (more colorful and 3d like) from a simple DVD upgrade disc?

... what kind of amp does the megellan have? hows the ipod interface.... u see where im going.

Well, on Pioneerelectronics. com it is under NAVIGATION and not under CAR AUDIO. It's being advertised as a full fetured Navigation system and I don't think that too many people would pay $2000 if it was being marketed as an audio device that by the way also has navigation.

When I replaced my first class factory head unit with a Navigation system I did not look at what kind of amp or i-pod interface it had.

I chose the Avic D1, later the Z-1 and now upgraded to Z-2, because I needed a Navigation system for my frequent travels.

I had accepted, up until now, that what the Avics do is all that can be expected of such a device currently.

I don't use my i-pod in the car and in any case i-pod is just something else that the Z-1, Z-2 can do, but first and foremost it's a navigagtion system and at the price it should be a BETTER Navigation system.

I've learned to always get my routing from Google maps before I go on trips and use the Avic stricly as a live map. It is great for that but so is a less than $200 portable.

The voice command was a feature that helped me decide on the Z1 over other options and I'm disappointed that they still have not improved on how poorly it functions. It understands "return home" every time but beyond that it's useless.

There is a way in the Z2 to adjust the routing options. Try them and see. You can also choose to have it shopw different routes and you pick one.

Thanks, but I'm familiar with every option setting and the different routes option. Tried every tweak that there is but nothing gives me reliable results.

Not sure why there are route options. Only one should be the most optimal route (actually none is) that I've asked for on the basis of my settings. How would I pick from the various routes when I don't know anything about that area?

I think the Z2's interface is falling behind some of the competitors.

 

Is it possible to get a fresh interface (more colorful and 3d like) from a simple DVD upgrade disc?

Unfortunately No there isn't. But you bring up a good point: Maps are displayed better on a variety of other units. In my area we have very thin almost indistinguishable yellow road lines on a beige background. Without putting on my reading glasses I can't make them out and it makes no difference if I chose blue or red for roads display.

Why does Pioneer (Tele Atlas) not double the thicknes of the minor-road lines and make them contrasting from the background Other units do.

And yes, I've tried all the brightnes and contrast settings.

Ok here we go mother fucka. I travel a lot, I got a truck that is 16 months old and has 65,000 miles on it. I have been across this country 3 times the past 12 months. The AVICs, all of them have their problems, but I have found in my travels that they are still great at getting it right. There are always areas that the mapping is not quite right. That is not Pioneers fault. They just load data that is proveded by another company. So call tele nav or whoever makes the mapping part and complain to them.

I have a friend that paid $3,500 for an alpine unit and it can not navigate him across the town we live in. How is that for Alpine???? Same thing different comany.

If you think you can do better, then start your own company and do it so we can pay you for the product. Get a Grip man. Nothing and I mean nothing is perfect. There are too many features involved that one comany does not have any control over. I think that for my money, the pioneer AVIC Z2 could be better, I agree, but quit bashing the thing cause it is not perfect.

+1 on Eggsack....Pioneer just bought into some 3rd party....And being that they are releasing updates, means that they are still in fact updating their data...But Pioneer themselves, do not do GPS....Too bad they couldn't sign on with Garmin or the likes...

In my case, the routing and charting is phenomenal...but the POI sucks...I can't find shite in my area, not even a walmart...Although I did find a childrens museum in New Orleans that I was surprised it found....But the museum is also older than I am...

look people , i have a garmin 2730 and i have the d 3 there are some things i dont like about the garmin and there are some things i dont like about the d3 navigation but the d 3 still gets me where i need to go.

U CANT PLEASE EVERY ONE!

DO U SEE WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS??

wow this thred got fun after i left!

im in a better mood today

A friend just brought his brand new Magellan 4250 along on a 400 mile round trip. I was amazed at how much better the routing was when compared to what my Z2 came up with and how well the voice command worked.

I'm not surprised that the Magellan is better than is the Z2 in the navigation dept. I'm driving around in rental cars right now with a little portable Garmin and discovered that I can actually trust the routing almost totally which would be a recipe for disaster with the Z2 (or any other Avic).

Your voice command info is very interesting as the Garmin that I have does not have that. Will have to see if Garmin has that or might have to get that Megellan 4250 instead.

....mother fucka..... That is not Pioneers fault. They just load data that is proveded by another company. So call tele nav ...

Ok buddy, you sure got this one wrong. It definately is Pioneers fault that they chose Tele Nav to provide the mapping for Pioneer. When I spend $1800 on a Pioneer I don't have a choice over who's mapping I buy with it. Pioneer made that choice.

Good thing I've got that VW diesel which will last a long time because Google and VW have bonded to provide true 3D mapping just the way you can see it on Google earth. Can't wait to put one of those babies into my Passat.

I don't think there is anything else on the market that will do so much so well.

Its not the best at everything it does, but for everything its the best.

The new ZR1 corvette coming out is going to be one expensive SOB. Its not going to haul 6 people and pull a horse trailer. That does not make it a failure does it?

Sure the routing on the Z2 is not the best. How are the audio quailties on the Magellan? Bet its a blast to watch DVDs on.

....mother fucka..... That is not Pioneers fault. They just load data that is proveded by another company. So call tele nav ...

Ok buddy, you sure got this one wrong. It definitely is Pioneers fault that they chose Tele Nav to provide the mapping for Pioneer. When I spend $1800 on a Pioneer I don't have a choice over who's mapping I buy with it. Pioneer made that choice.

Good thing I've got that VW diesel which will last a long time because Google and VW have bonded to provide true 3D mapping just the way you can see it on Google earth. Can't wait to put one of those babies into my Passat.

You're right!!! But it's still not Pioneer's fault...Google and Garmin are not leasing their stuff out. Both companies are very capable of producing an equivalent/superior car nav system...But they choose not to....Tell me, does Garmin or Google produce HDTV's, AV receiver, car audio, portable DVD players, DVD players, etc... So it's safe to say, that they are in fact not interested in pioneering new technologies in other areas...

Point is...had Pioneer been able to team up with those big Nav companies, you don't think they would have?

Besides, Pioneer set the pace with the Avics... It's called the "bleeding edge" IMO...The AvicZ2 is a bargain at $1800...just think of what you're getting, and what all you can do with it....

I agree it has some quirks....but what is out there that is sooo much better? Give Pioneer some positive feedback on what you like an dislike, instead of giving them grief...They have the power to put pressure on TeleNav to make a better product....you should just tell them....and if/when you do....be mature about it...

Ok buddy, you sure got this one wrong. It definitely is Pioneers fault that they chose Tele Nav to provide the mapping for Pioneer. When I spend $1800 on a Pioneer I don't have a choice over who's mapping I buy with it. Pioneer made that choice.

Good thing I've got that VW diesel which will last a long time because Google and VW have bonded to provide true 3D mapping just the way you can see it on Google earth. Can't wait to put one of those babies into my Passat.

 

You're right!!! But it's still not Pioneer's fault...Google and Garmin are not leasing their stuff out. Both companies are very capable of producing an equivalent/superior car nav system...But they choose not to....Tell me, does Garmin or Google produce HDTV's, AV receiver, car audio, portable DVD players, DVD players, etc... So it's safe to say, that they are in fact not interested in pioneering new technologies in other areas...

 

Point is...had Pioneer been able to team up with those big Nav companies, you don't think they would have?

 

Besides, Pioneer set the pace with the Avics... It's called the "bleeding edge" IMO...The AvicZ2 is a bargain at $1800...just think of what you're getting, and what all you can do with it....

 

I agree it has some quirks....but what is out there that is sooo much better? Give Pioneer some positive feedback on what you like an dislike, instead of giving them grief...They have the power to put pressure on TeleNav to make a better product....you should just tell them....and if/when you do....be mature about it...

Positive feedback: Can't think of any.

Why? Because I needed a top navigation system and the Z1 was advertised as being that. I paid over $2000 for navigation and the only other feature that caught my eye was the voice control for hands free operation.

Voice control may as well not be in there as it's simply not working more than maybe 5% of the time.

Routing can not be trusted.

Pioneer could have easily found another map service. TeleNav is NOT the only one available outside of Magellan and Garmin but without a doubt either one would provide mapping to Pioneer at the right price. TeleNav offered the lowest price and got the contract.

If Google is willing to work with VW than I'm sure they would be, or would have been, willing to work with Pioneer.

If you guys want to be happy because of the amp or the i-pod interface then you didn't need a first class Navigation system in the first place.

And if that's the market that this thing is directed at then Pioneer should say so up front.

You're right!!! But it's still not Pioneer's fault...Google and Garmin are not leasing their stuff out. Both companies are very capable of producing an equivalent/superior car nav system...But they choose not to....Tell me, does Garmin or Google produce HDTV's, AV receiver, car audio, portable DVD players, DVD players, etc... So it's safe to say, that they are in fact not interested in pioneering new technologies in other areas...

 

Point is...had Pioneer been able to team up with those big Nav companies, you don't think they would have?

 

Besides, Pioneer set the pace with the Avics... It's called the "bleeding edge" IMO...The AvicZ2 is a bargain at $1800...just think of what you're getting, and what all you can do with it....

 

I agree it has some quirks....but what is out there that is sooo much better? Give Pioneer some positive feedback on what you like an dislike, instead of giving them grief...They have the power to put pressure on TeleNav to make a better product....you should just tell them....and if/when you do....be mature about it...

Just like most others, I've purchased the Z1 as a high end Navigation System. That's what it was advertised as and that's the area where it was claimed to excel.

Pioneer needs to hear that the Avics are no longer acceptable as high end navigation systems. They have been surpassed even by $200 units in that dept.

If Pioneer then wants to advertise them as audio systems with an added navigation feature, than they will be marketing to the consumers that the product is now most suited for and I'll have no problem with that.

When someone like me needs to have a Garmin on the dash in addition to that Z2 in the dash then something is terribly wrong with the Z2.

It's up to Pioneer how they lay down the law to TeleAtlas and bring about that much needed catch-up, or alternatively cancel their contract for non-performance and move on to someone who can keep up with the times.

Just like most others, I've purchased the Z1 as a high end Navigation System. That's what it was advertised as and that's the area where it was claimed to excel.

Pioneer needs to hear that the Avics are no longer acceptable as high end navigation systems. They have been surpassed even by $200 units in that dept.

If Pioneer then wants to advertise them as audio systems with an added navigation feature, than they will be marketing to the consumers that the product is now most suited for and I'll have no problem with that.

 

When someone like me needs to have a Garmin on the dash in addition to that Z2 in the dash then something is terribly wrong with the Z2.

 

It's up to Pioneer how they lay down the law to TeleAtlas and bring about that much needed catch-up, or alternatively cancel their contract for non-performance and move on to someone who can keep up with the times.

This thread and specifically your post has changed my mind about the AVIC-Z2 I was going to buy. I currently have Nuvi 350 and have been very happy with the navigation but I wanted to get a DVD player and backup camera in my truck.

However, if the Z2 does not perform the primary function (which I agree that it is being sold as a navigation unit) as well as the Garmin than it is not worth the money to me.

This is really a shame because I was really looking forward to getting one.

I am in the US - does that change things? Is the navigation better here?

Good for you! This is just what needs to happen to get pioneer to change. I don't know if you read some of my post but I sold my Z1 because as a nav system it's a piece of $hit. You want a real good laugh call pioneer tech support and complain that it will route you twentyseven miles out of your way and they will tell you its acceptable. Also tell them about this web site and how many people complain and they will tell you we don't listen to internet hearsay. Go buy a good nav system!

Is it the mapping (Teleatlas) or just Pioneer hardware/software thats lacking?

Cause I wonder if they switched to NavTeq?

... I paid over $2000 for navigation and the only other feature that caught my eye was the voice control for hands free operation. ...

Why did you buy a Z1 if you weren't interested in the media features! Basic rule, buy the unit with the features that you want/need. Don't get the printer with a built in fax and copier if you have no interested in a fax and copier. They are just extra features that can have problems and put a halt to your printing.

It's up to Pioneer how they lay down the law to TeleAtlas and bring about that much needed catch-up, or alternatively cancel their contract for non-performance and move on to someone who can keep up with the times.

I don't know or understand the code that is in the navigation systems but I would assume that changing to another navigation company is easer said then done. I would guess that the different companies data structures are different, at least enough that changing to a new set up would create major setbacks. They have a lot of time and money invested in this navigation software and rewriting the algorithm is not easy and you don't want a kludged fix either. Not to say that they should let TeleAtlas walk all over them but abandoning a setup could be bad too.

Also I found it kinda funny we all are talking about "needing" navigation and routing when it was only a few years ago that all of the routing was done in your head on a paper map. A computer even pointing to the destination on the map was great. I am not trying to bash you hard earned $$$ you spent on a system but trying to remind us that these are really luxuries in our cars not necessities. Its kinda like how people feel lost and useless with out their cell phones. Or that it can be unsafe to be in a populated area when there is a power outage, because people go crazy!

Yes, I have had routing problems before too and I just looked at the destination on the map and followed the road that took me there. Sorry for the rant.

I don't know a whole lot about writing code or anything, but I do know that the old stand-alone Pioneers(AVIC9/90/80) were NavTeq. Now you can buy the new TeleAtlas software and stick it in those models and it works fine, so I don't think there is a conflict between using teleatles or navteq as long as Pioneer is doing it. That being said, the routing was no better with NavTeq and the POI data was not nearly as cool. So I think its a routing problem on the Pioneer end, but like I said, its just an assumption.

With all that being said, I love my deck. The nav ALWAYS gets me there! And even if it does take a few minutes slower route, at least I got to listen to XM, Sirius, Ipod, Movies, etc. with a nice interface while I was getting there. I use the Alpine, Kenwood, and Panasonic units on a regular basis and Pioneer is still destroying the competition when it comes to navigation so quit whining...At least you don't have one of those decks in your ride or you would be even more upset

Their are two main companies that provide maps to every navigational unit out there. The two are Tele atlas and Navteq. Tom Tom now owns Tele Atlas and Nokia recently bought Navteq.