I don't know a whole lot about writing code or anything, but I do know that the old stand-alone Pioneers(AVIC9/90/80) were NavTeq. Now you can buy the new TeleAtlas software and stick it in those models and it works fine, so I don't think there is a conflict between using teleatles or navteq as long as Pioneer is doing it. ...

Wow, very interesting. Well maybe I am wrong. Having a standard for "map" data / databases would be very cool. You then could do a cross referencing system for locations and routes and other neat things. Hmm....

Actually whtcrxghst you seem quite knowledgeable about these systems. I was wondering how much know about the AVICs internals. Specifically the IO for it's add on systems (DVD changer, Sat Radio, etc.). If your or others knowledge is as extensive as I hope I can start a new thread for my questions.

You mean my knowledge of the P-bus? Not much except that it works and there was a diagram on here of the pin configuration and what each does. Is that what you meant?

... I paid over $2000 for navigation and the only other feature that caught my eye was the voice control for hands free operation. ...

 

Why did you buy a Z1 if you weren't interested in the media features! Basic rule' date=' buy the unit with the features that you want/need. [/quote']

 

Hmmm, did you read the sentence that YOU'RE quoting?? I needed the navigation and liked the hands free voice control

Didn't have any option to NOT have the rest of the baggage. Pioneer neglegted to put into their advertisements that the routing is terribly flawed and the voice control, for all intense and purpose, doesn't work.

Unfortunately the reviews that I found at the time didn't make mention of those facts either.

 

I don't know or understand the code that is in the navigation systems but .....

Seeing that it's not open source, no one here could possibly understand it.

Once Pioneer were to understand that TeleAtlas is no longer up to speed, and that sales are dropping because of it, they would have no problem changing over to NAVTEQ or Google. (I know, Google doesn't currently provide mapping for these units BUT they will soon!) The change-over would probably be much more work for the lawyers than for the coders.

GARMIN uses NAVTEQ and the routing is almost always better, shorter, faster than the Z2.

I've now done my homework and have added the Garman Nuvi 660 to may dashboard. (It too has a lot of baggage that I'm not interested in) The Z2, because of it's bigger screen, still gives a better live map and I'm not going to rip it out until I find something that fits in there AND gives good routing.

Hopefully Garmin or Magellan will some day soon come out with their own in-dash version. Pioneer is certainly leaving the door wide open.

GARMIN and MEGELLAN both use NAVTEQ.

TomTom still uses TeleAtlas but has released the following info:

NAVTEQ (NYSE: NVT), a leading global provider of digital map data for vehicle navigation and location-based solutions, has signed a license agreement with TomTom, a leading navigation solution provider, to feature NAVTEQ maps in TomTom's new RIDER product, which is TomTom's first navigation product made specifically for motorcycles worldwide. The RIDER product will be launched later this year. TomTom's selection of NAVTEQ data for the TomTom RIDER product makes the integration of NAVTEQ maps of the United States, Canada and Europe possible across all TomTom navigation solutions. TomTom products will be NAVTEQ map ready following the planned release of the new TomTom RIDER product. This agreement brings together two market leaders. TomTom is well recognized for a range of portable personal navigation devices. Every automobile manufacturer that currently offers a navigation system in Europe and North America uses NAVTEQ maps in one or more of its models, and NAVTEQ is a leading provider of digital maps for the mobile navigation device and location-based services industries. "Making our products NAVTEQ map ready supports our commitment to customer satisfaction. The NAVTEQ brand is the power behind so many well-known navigation solutions. Pairing TomTom and NAVTEQ products together makes certain that our customers have an excellent experience with our navigation products," said Harold Goddijn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of TomTom NV.

If TomTom can switch to NAVTEQ, so can Pioneer. We just need to nudge them a little.

Yes I did, all I meant was you could get a simpler system like the one in my wifes legacy. I think it is a Kenwood but I am not sure of that. Nice navigation and navigation features with no A/V features. I think it is a great set up for her because she is not interested in a A/V system in her car and the navigation in LA and New Mexico is great!

I Bus pin-out diagram would be great, do you remember the thread? I have not seen that here but then again I have been away for a few months.

The routing problems have nothing to do with whether Pioneer uses TeleAtlas or NavTeq. Its just not as good a routing algorithm as garmin has, not a mapping issue

No, but I saved it...

Yes I did, all I meant was you could get a simpler system like the one in my wifes legacy. I think it is a Kenwood but I am not sure of that. Nice navigation and navigation features with no A/V features. I think it is a great set up for her because she is not interested in a A/V system in her car and the navigation in LA and New Mexico is great!

 

I Bus pin-out diagram would be great, do you remember the thread? I have not seen that here but then again I have been away for a few months.

Cool thanks!

It's ok Z1 newbie...i'm pretty sure that the people that say "shut up its fine, stop complaining" have never actually experienced the navigation issues. I have, so i feel your pain. I believe people think that we are complaining that the AVIC's can't pick the most efficient route. For me, its not that...it's the routes it picks just don't make any sense at all. There are serious programming issues with these units. And it's not TeleAtlas' fault either. I have a tomom which uses TeleAtlas and it has no problem picking a decent route (usually 40-50% shorter than the AVIC) The pioneer knows the roads are there, it just refuses to use them. Whether i pick fastest or shortest route, it will still have me drive in the wrong direction, around in circles, making u-turns, etc. I agree that for what we pay for these things (and i only have a $700 D3) we should get much better. Sure the radio sounds great, the ipod interface, well...that sucks too, so Pioneer really owes us a firmware update to fix this nav issue. They should take a cue from Kenwood. Just throw in the towel, stop trying to write your own algorithm, and license it from Garmin, TomTom, Magellan, etc.....and fix the ipod interface too while you're at it.

I use the Alpine, Kenwood, and Panasonic units on a regular basis and Pioneer is still destroying the competition when it comes to navigation so quit whining...At least you don't have one of those decks in your ride or you would be even more upset

No way jose. My jeep has an Alpine nav unit ('04 model) in it and it totally destroys my D3 in routing efficiency. And i highly doubt that a garmin-based Kenwood can not exceed the Pioneer either. You must just be lucky enough to live in an area where the Pioneer doesn't show its serious flaws. Around here it shows them all the time.

You're probably right...I have no issue with mine...Or I at least haven't seen the problem...Of course, I don't use mine in my area, as I know the roads as well as the traffic for a given time of day...Besides, no vehicle nav system can do better than what I know of my area...It's pretty fruitless to even test it as most Nav systems use the route with less turns/major roads, regardless of fastest route or shortest...There is probably other variables that it uses to get it's routes that, unless you wrote the code, you probably couldn't comprehend...like, to always be right and get you there, versus taking a small shoddy road that was actually a shortcut that went straight through the ghetto...More over,it would rather give you a crappy route than give you a possible bad/wrong route...

I don't know about handhelds, as I had a horribly bad exsperience with a Magellan Marine handheld, and swore off handhelds...I used fishing weights to sink mine ot the bottom of the lake...But from what I've seen from factory equipted Nav units and some aftermarket, none of them are perfect.

But like mentioned, My Avic has always got me there...and if it's routing is as bad as you're saying, then I wouldn't have known, as I use mine in unfamiliar areas, and have no clue as to if there was a better route.

I urge you and everyone else just to try it a few times in an area you know just to see. Of course it still might not do it, but if it does you will be like OMG. That's how i discovered it, just playing around with it in areas i already knew. And like i said, its not that it doesnt pick the fastest way that I know, it just takes some way that makes no sense at all. For example, i'm driving on the road that my destination is on, 2 miles ahead, and it has me turn right, take some 4 mile side trip, and then come back to the same exact intersection where it had me turn in the first place. Same for highway driving. I'm driving down the highway and it tells me to exit, take a little side trip with a few u turns, and then get back on the highway at the same exit where it had me get off. My TomTom, also with 2007 TeleAtlas maps correctly tells me to keep driving straight. From my work to home, set to shortest distance, the Pioneer has me starting off driving in the wrong direction, with a total trip of 34 miles. The TomTom plans a 17 mile route instead. What doesn't pioneer understand about SHORTEST ROUTE?. I'm sorry i keep ranting throughout these forums but i just want my voice to be heard, and i want more people to speak up so that those of us having this issue can get a fix. I understand that not everyone is having the issue, and alot of people are completely satisfied, but i'm sick of people saying "shut up, stop whining" when they have no idea about the actual issue at hand.

I use mine every day because the navtraffic only works if I have a route set, and I only know of one route it consistently takes me a slower way so obviously its better here than other places.

For you sir that loves your 04 Alpine, try doing a POI search or telephone search. Thats the one thing TeleAtlas has over NavTeq, a much more up-to-date listing for gas stations, restaurants, etc.

The routing problems have nothing to do with whether Pioneer uses TeleAtlas or NavTeq. Its just not as good a routing algorithm as garmin has, not a mapping issue

Too bad, I thought we could blame it all on TeleAtlas.

Now that I have the Garmin in addition to the Z2, I've also become painfully aware of the fabulous detail on the Garmin maps when compared to the Avic. In my area, lakes with 20 miles of shoreline are completely missing in the Avic and so are bays in the Great lakes and rivers. The Garmin has them all.

Ok, so we have two problems, one with Pioneer (routing), and another with TeleAtlas (mapping).

.....And then there is the problem with voice command.

Sounds like Pioneer has a long way to go before they get it right.

It sure would be good to know that they are at least working on it, which in my mind is doubtful when I look at how little progress was made whith the Z2 over the Z1.

It's Pioneer's issue. Tele Atlas releases updated maps every quarter to their subscribers but Pioneer only releases the updates annually. Pioneer is scheduled to release an update by May '08.

The Z3 is also due out at that time. It won't use Tele Atlas but Microsoft Maps and the iPod interface is supposed to be through USB (full speed)

You couldn't be more wrong about that. The Z3 is in the literature Pioneer handed out at CES and there are NO hardware changes, just a mapping update

You are confusing the Z3 with the portable they are releasing in May with MSN direct for traffic, weather, gas, etc. There are lots of press releases on it if you want to start spreading the correct information

 

The Z3 is also due out at that time. It won't use Tele Atlas but Microsoft Maps and the iPod interface is supposed to be through USB (full speed)

... I don't know about handhelds, as I had a horribly bad exsperience with a Magellan Marine handheld, and swore off handhelds...I used fishing weights to sink mine ot the bottom of the lake...

Did you actually do that! What a great way to kill a bad system! Except for the littering but still funny!

I don't know about everyone else but I don't mind people listing and complaining about problems. It is helpful, especially for new buyers. But ranting and flaming is annoying and often gets you ignored by the people who can help. Listing a clear description of the problems and looking for resolution is helpful. Going off about you have been swindled by an inferior system is not.

The posts on this page (pg 3) were much better and clearer. This is the way to help us understand your problem. I am interested in finding some example now too. Sorry I didn’t mean to lecture it is just a shame the people get frustrated and start a fight and the problem never goes any where. And that is what turns these forums to $h!t.

....

I don't know about everyone else but I don't mind people listing and complaining about problems. It is helpful, especially for new buyers. But ranting and flaming is annoying and often gets you ignored by the people who can help. Listing a clear description of the problems and looking for resolution is helpful. Going off about you have been swindled by an inferior system is not.

 

The posts on this page (pg 3) were much better and clearer. This is the way to help us understand your problem. I am interested in finding some example now too. Sorry I didn’t mean to lecture it is just a shame the people get frustrated and start a fight and the problem never goes any where. And that is what turns these forums to $h!t.

Is it fair to assume that you're a teacher or yearning to become one?

....I am interested in finding some example now too.

Ahhh yes, there was that request for examples:

Here is my worst experience with routing. A number of others have come close.

http://www.avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7192&highlight=

Ahhh yes, there was that request for examples:

Here is my worst experience with routing. A number of others have come close.

http://www.avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7192&highlight=

So the Z2 fixed that issue for you (Z2 was just a software update over the Z1 right?), i hope that means the next update for the D3 will fix it as well. That example you posted is the exact issue i'm talking about...just FYI for all the people who insist that there isn't a problem.

***EDIT***

Nevermind, i just saw where you said that it only seemed to fix it for that one route.

... I don't know about handhelds, as I had a horribly bad exsperience with a Magellan Marine handheld, and swore off handhelds...I used fishing weights to sink mine ot the bottom of the lake...

Did you actually do that! What a great way to kill a bad system! Except for the littering but still funny!

Well...the only thing that was probably hazardous to marine life was the batteries, and I didn't use batteries, as I just used a dock that I regret ever screwing into my fiberglass console of my boat...

But I did indeed sink it with fishing weights...I got super PO'd and threw it in the water...to ony find that the POS floats...ticked me off even more...3 - 1oz sinkers later, I was relieved of it's sorry engineering forever...

LOL

Great now there is going to be a lot of lost fish in that lake.

pioneer could have gotten garmin cause if kenwood could then why not. especially since pioneer nav came out first. My brother has a kenwood, I dont know the model number but its a 7 inch in dash hard drive unit like pioneer. The garmin nav is great but the other radio features suck. While in nav mode to change an audio track you have to press the function button first if you dont want the buttons constantly on the screen. And the hard drive can not store music. One good thing is the sd card slot thats ONLY for map upgrades. Pioneer has always been my audio choice and Ill stick to them untill. Pioneers nav is great and is also flawed just as anyones else's product out there. Nothing is perfect everything has ups and downs..

That is true...there is rarely, if ever, a perfect product out there...

Pioneer chose Tele-Atlas for a reason...And being that Google Earth uses it as well, it could end up playing a good decition down the road...