I used to have a Premier head unit with 5 or 6 volt preouts and the sound was loud and very clear. When I installed the D3 (who's preouts are only 2.2 volts) I could turn the volume all the way up, with the SLA pegged at 4, and my amps gain levels set to max and it wasn't very loud at all and was kind of flat.

I think there was something wrong with your D3! 4v preouts are a marketing gimmick really - you only get 4v at full volume (62), and the voltage increases exponentially, so at normal volume there won't be much difference between 2v and 4v preouts. If your HU and amps are working properly and the gains are setup correctly, you shouldn't notice any difference between the two.

 

I've scoped the preouts on my F900, and they output roughly 2v rms at volume 62. At volume 58 it's down to 1v rms, and at more normal volumes it's much much lower (probably 0.0.. something). Therefore, with 4v preouts, the increase in voltage below about level 55 is going to be tiny. An F900 at full volume (62) should output a similar preout voltage to an F90 at volume 58

 

In my last car, I had Alpine and then Clarion HUs, both with 4v preouts, and then changed to a Sony XES, which "only" has 2v preouts. A small tweak to the amp gains was all the system needed to set them up for the new voltage - not the large adjustment you might expect, because the difference in preout voltage wasn't that much in real terms. The XES was (and still is) one of the finest SQ HUs ever made - the Alpine F#1 of its day, but it was around before someone decided "4v preouts" was good marketing - it's no worse off for it

completely depends on what the inputs of certain amplifiers accept. some work well with low input voltage. many do not.

i don't want to turn volume up on any pioneer head unit into the upper numbers. with my Z1, it sounded horrible once you were into the upper 20's.

my ZAPCO competition amps starve for input voltage, and without high voltage inputs they don't perform up to their capability.

Well I'll tell you what. The difference in sound quality and volume between my D3 and my F90 are incredible. Say what you will, but the higher voltage RCA outputs made a huge difference. And no there is nothing wrong with my amps and speakers or how they are set up. Also, I had 2 different D3's in my car with this same amp/speaker setup and both of them had the same flat sounding, low volume issue. I doubt that they both had some sort of problem that would cause that. They just sucked for sound quality.

It's quite possible that the F90 does just sound better - perhaps the D series had bad SQ, and they improved it in the F series, or perhaps the Premier units have better DACs - who knows? There's a lot more to sound quality than preout voltage, so without comparing a 2v F90 and a 4v F90, we'll never know

completely depends on what the inputs of certain amplifiers accept. some work well with low input voltage. many do not.

 

i don't want to turn volume up on any pioneer head unit into the upper numbers. with my Z1, it sounded horrible once you were into the upper 20's.

 

my ZAPCO competition amps starve for input voltage, and without high voltage inputs they don't perform up to their capability.

Any good amp (like Zapco, PG, Genesis etc etc) should be able to handle a wide range of input voltages - 2v is not low by any means. Remember that a standard line level output on a hifi component is about 1v RMS, and older car audio equipment (like my XES) is 2v, and no worse off for it. The whole "higher preout voltages mean less noise and more volume" is a myth created by the marketing men. The only time I've ever had an issue with preout voltage is when my Alpine deck went wrong and outputted 0.4v at full volume, instead of 4v!

I agree that you don't want to turn the HU volume up too much, but remember that at lower volumes the difference between a 2v and 4v preout is small - 0.x of a volt (i.e. not much)! You'll only ever see 4v at full volume with an 0db signal (e.g. a test tone), otherwise it'll be much less. If you don't believe me, get the oscilloscope out - I did

FWIW, when playing an 0db test tone, the F900's preouts don't distort, even at full volume (62), as long as the EQ is set to flat - if you apply any boost it will start to clip. So, if the EQ is flat it's safe to use it up to full volume without risk of distortion

Well I'll tell you what. The difference in sound quality and volume between my D3 and my F90 are incredible. Say what you will, but the higher voltage RCA outputs made a huge difference. And no there is nothing wrong with my amps and speakers or how they are set up. Also, I had 2 different D3's in my car with this same amp/speaker setup and both of them had the same flat sounding, low volume issue. I doubt that they both had some sort of problem that would cause that. They just sucked for sound quality.

It's quite possible that the F90 does just sound better - perhaps the D series had bad SQ, and they improved it in the F series, or perhaps the Premier units have better DACs - who knows? There's a lot more to sound quality than preout voltage, so without comparing a 2v F90 and a 4v F90, we'll never know

 

 

completely depends on what the inputs of certain amplifiers accept. some work well with low input voltage. many do not.

 

i don't want to turn volume up on any pioneer head unit into the upper numbers. with my Z1, it sounded horrible once you were into the upper 20's.

 

my ZAPCO competition amps starve for input voltage, and without high voltage inputs they don't perform up to their capability.

Any good amp (like Zapco, PG, Genesis etc etc) should be able to handle a wide range of input voltages - 2v is not low by any means. Remember that a standard line level output on a hifi component is about 1v RMS, and older car audio equipment (like my XES) is 2v, and no worse off for it. The whole "higher preout voltages mean less noise and more volume" is a myth created by the marketing men. The only time I've ever had an issue with preout voltage is when my Alpine deck went wrong and outputted 0.4v at full volume, instead of 4v!

 

I agree that you don't want to turn the HU volume up too much, but remember that at lower volumes the difference between a 2v and 4v preout is small - 0.x of a volt (i.e. not much)! You'll only ever see 4v at full volume with an 0db signal (e.g. a test tone), otherwise it'll be much less. If you don't believe me, get the oscilloscope out - I did

 

FWIW, when playing an 0db test tone, the F900's preouts don't distort, even at full volume (62), as long as the EQ is set to flat - if you apply any boost it will start to clip. If you want to use the EQ, I'd use 50 as the maximum volume - that will allow you some headroom to add EQ boost as required.

Well I'll tell you what. The difference in sound quality and volume between my D3 and my F90 are incredible. Say what you will, but the higher voltage RCA outputs made a huge difference. And no there is nothing wrong with my amps and speakers or how they are set up. Also, I had 2 different D3's in my car with this same amp/speaker setup and both of them had the same flat sounding, low volume issue. I doubt that they both had some sort of problem that would cause that. They just sucked for sound quality.

I will confirm this. I have an aftermarket kicker amp and two kicker L7's in my car. AFter selling my D3 and putting my old single din SONY cd player temporary that has 4 volt sup outputs. Its sounds a hell of a lot better than my D3, both sound quality and loudness. Interested what my F90BT will sound like.

I agree that you don't want to turn the HU volume up too much, but remember that at lower volumes the difference between a 2v and 4v preout is small - 0.x of a volt (i.e. not much)! You'll only ever see 4v at full volume with an 0db signal (e.g. a test tone), otherwise it'll be much less. If you don't believe me, get the oscilloscope out - I did

 

FWIW, when playing an 0db test tone, the F900's preouts don't distort, even at full volume (62), as long as the EQ is set to flat - if you apply any boost it will start to clip. So, if the EQ is flat it's safe to use it up to full volume without risk of distortion

ZAPCO Competition amps do not work well with 2volt inputs. Most people might not even know or hear the difference. But I do, and so do the ZAPCO guys. Their solution would cost me some money so I had been holding out.

ZAPCO amps can take over 16v of input with their symbilink transmitters, but, it hurts when what you start with is low.

the frequency response would change pretty quickly on my Z1 and that is what caused me the most grief. I needed to stay lower in the sweet spot of the volume.

I sold my Z1, installed it in a 2008 Tahoe with an Alpine PDX5 and it was awesome. Full volume was in the low 20's.

I had purchased the JVC KW-NX7000 unit. GPS navigation is the most important part of the unit for me. So I returned it immediately when a JVC supervisor confirmed that the unit does NOT have "dead reckoning" capabilities.

When there is a loss of GPS signal (driving through a tunnel or surrounded by tall buildings), dead reckoning employs the use of an internal gyroscope and a connection to the vehicle's speed sensor in order to keep the vehicle pin-pointed on the map. This significantly improves accuracy. The gyroscope tells the unit what direction you're heading and if you're turning, and the speed sensor connection of course tells the unit how fast you're traveling.

$200 windshield mount units do not have dead reckoning capabilities. All factory units, and many aftermarket in-dash units, have dead reckoning. Sadly, the KW-NX7000 nav capabilities are no better than your average $200 windshield-mount unit.

Now I am considering Pioneer's AVIC-F900BT. This unit does indeed have 'dead reckoning'. But I'm still not sure I want to wait 2 minutes everytime I turn the ignition!

I am reading that there are varying boot-up times depending on your preferences. Can someone out there time how long it takes to boot up after ignition with JUST the radio or CD music as the default (no SD card in the slot, no Ipod connection at all, no Satellite radio, no backup cam)?

Under the above scenario, can someone tell me exactly how many seconds after turning the key before you hear music AND can control it-- ability to either change radio stations, or change the CD track?

Before I purchase, I also need to know exactly how many seconds elapse after I turn the ignition before I can fully use the GPS navigation (enter a destination and get going).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Stop Lou!

I havent any any problems with, i just have the system and an iphone no extras beyond that. Everything works perfect after the update, boot time doesnt bother me your car is supposed to warm up at first anyway, it may bother me if i were to stop for gas on the way somewhere but thats all, the minute wait isnt a deal breaker

I had purchased the JVC KW-NX7000 unit. GPS navigation is the most important part of the unit for me. So I returned it immediately when a JVC supervisor confirmed that the unit does NOT have "dead reckoning" capabilities.

 

When there is a loss of GPS signal (driving through a tunnel or surrounded by tall buildings), dead reckoning employs the use of an internal gyroscope and a connection to the vehicle's speed sensor in order to keep the vehicle pin-pointed on the map. This significantly improves accuracy. The gyroscope tells the unit what direction you're heading and if you're turning, and the speed sensor connection of course tells the unit how fast you're traveling.

 

$200 windshield mount units do not have dead reckoning capabilities. All factory units, and many aftermarket in-dash units, have dead reckoning. Sadly, the KW-NX7000 nav capabilities are no better than your average $200 windshield-mount unit.

 

Now I am considering Pioneer's AVIC-F900BT. This unit does indeed have 'dead reckoning'. But I'm still not sure I want to wait 2 minutes everytime I turn the ignition!

 

I am reading that there are varying boot-up times depending on your preferences. Can someone out there time how long it takes to boot up after ignition with JUST the radio or CD music as the default (no SD card in the slot, no Ipod connection at all, no Satellite radio, no backup cam)?

 

Under the above scenario, can someone tell me exactly how many seconds after turning the key before you hear music AND can control it-- ability to either change radio stations, or change the CD track?

 

Before I purchase, I also need to know exactly how many seconds elapse after I turn the ignition before I can fully use the GPS navigation (enter a destination and get going).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

For non-SD card, playback is pretty quick -within 5 or 6 seconds, about the same amount of time for the backup cam to work. Some control can be had in 30 seconds or so, full control in over a minute usually. If you have the ipod VBR on its 2 minutes for me.

None of these are satisfactory in my opinion.

Maybe I am the only one, but the O.P. states that 1 min 14 seconds is ok, and for me that amount of time to listen to the radio is absurd.

I had purchased the JVC KW-NX7000 unit. GPS navigation is the most important part of the unit for me. So I returned it immediately when a JVC supervisor confirmed that the unit does NOT have "dead reckoning" capabilities.

 

When there is a loss of GPS signal (driving through a tunnel or surrounded by tall buildings), dead reckoning employs the use of an internal gyroscope and a connection to the vehicle's speed sensor in order to keep the vehicle pin-pointed on the map. This significantly improves accuracy. The gyroscope tells the unit what direction you're heading and if you're turning, and the speed sensor connection of course tells the unit how fast you're traveling.

 

$200 windshield mount units do not have dead reckoning capabilities. All factory units, and many aftermarket in-dash units, have dead reckoning. Sadly, the KW-NX7000 nav capabilities are no better than your average $200 windshield-mount unit.

 

Now I am considering Pioneer's AVIC-F900BT. This unit does indeed have 'dead reckoning'. But I'm still not sure I want to wait 2 minutes everytime I turn the ignition!

 

I am reading that there are varying boot-up times depending on your preferences. Can someone out there time how long it takes to boot up after ignition with JUST the radio or CD music as the default (no SD card in the slot, no Ipod connection at all, no Satellite radio, no backup cam)?

 

Under the above scenario, can someone tell me exactly how many seconds after turning the key before you hear music AND can control it-- ability to either change radio stations, or change the CD track?

 

Before I purchase, I also need to know exactly how many seconds elapse after I turn the ignition before I can fully use the GPS navigation (enter a destination and get going).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

For non-SD card, playback is pretty quick -within 5 or 6 seconds, about the same amount of time for the backup cam to work. Some control can be had in 30 seconds or so, full control in over a minute usually. If you have the ipod VBR on its 2 minutes for me.

 

None of these are satisfactory in my opinion.

 

Maybe I am the only one, but the O.P. states that 1 min 14 seconds is ok, and for me that amount of time to listen to the radio is absurd.

Radio is Non-SD right? So 5 or 6 seconds is too long??? And like someone else said your car needs to warm up anyways

The only advantage to having 4 volt preouts is to give the amplifier a hotter signal, less induced noise into the system. Basically it is a marketing gimmick.

The gain controls on the amplifier should be adjusted accordingly to what the output of the radio has.

Now, if you pull a D3 out and replace it with a F90 and do not touch the gains on the amp, it will of course be louder than before. The idea here is you want to match the gain on the amp with what the output voltage is on the radio. Gain controls are NOT volume controls.

Having the gains turned up high on the amp with 4 volt preouts will be louder, but will also distort more easily.

 

Radio is Non-SD right? So 5 or 6 seconds is too long??? And like someone else said your car needs to warm up anyways

Well I suppose it is alright if I only listened to AM/FM/XM and did not want to change the channel for 50 seconds or so. Also, a HUGE selling point for me was that the AVIC F could play SD (I also bought a 16Gb SD card)

Also, to the OP, is is still flawless? How about if someone calls you, and they hang up before you can press the red disconnect button? Does it hang for a minute or so?

Does your ipod NEVER disconnect for no reason?

How about SD card playback, does it load immediately or does it take a minute?

Does your reverse camera work right away or does it take 6+ seconds ro turn on?

Oh, does your phone work right away after turning your car off, or does it lock up for a minute?

Oh, and when your phone auto connects to the bluetooth on the Pioneer while you are on a call, does it ruin the call (i.e. mutes it so neither side can hear)?

These are honest questions, maybe my unit *is* uniquely broken and I can send it back to Pioneer to fix it, but I have a feeling that is how they all work. Maybe I am just too picky and other people don't care if their calls are ruined or if their playback is slow.

You're absolutely right, tacomaboy! I have ALL of the problems you mentioned, plus:

1. When i first turn the car on, it takes several attempts for the unit to connect to my Blackberry Pearl. EVERY other bluetooth device connects to it within 2 seconds, and does so reliably (even my cheapo motorola headset).

2. The overall system is very slow to respond right after startup, and sometimes during navigation.

3. The system has actually crashed on me while giving me directions! I've had to pull over to power cycle the device, to get it to come back.

4. The system mutes itself for no reason, all sources, regardless of AV source. Only a reboot fixes it.

Far from perfect, but hopefully fixable.

Cheers.

You're absolutely right, tacomaboy! I have ALL of the problems you mentioned, plus:

 

1. When i first turn the car on, it takes several attempts for the unit to connect to my Blackberry Pearl. EVERY other bluetooth device connects to it within 2 seconds, and does so reliably (even my cheapo motorola headset).

 

2. The overall system is very slow to respond right after startup, and sometimes during navigation.

 

3. The system has actually crashed on me while giving me directions! I've had to pull over to power cycle the device, to get it to come back.

 

4. The system mutes itself for no reason, all sources, regardless of AV source. Only a reboot fixes it.

 

Far from perfect, but hopefully fixable.

 

Cheers.

Thats what I figured... everyone here who has an F series should have at least the above problems. Occasionally if I get impatient and start pushing buttons when its booting or locked up after a call, it can freeze or reboot, but that is not repeatable.

At any rate, I would be amazed if someone really had a perfect unit. I would not believe that claim (perfect is in the eye of the beholder I suppose)

I absolutely love my f700BT. Except for the fact that it lags a bit, and only a bit! Also i have my iphone 3G hooked up through aux. apparently pioneer's update didnt fix the usb problem. if you're unaware, the iphone 3g does NOT work via usb with the pioneer f series. i tried everything, even changing AV1 to iPod. Anyways i love this unit had it for about a week, installed it myelf and have nothing bad to say about it. I dont like sirius's electronic music variety so I use XM; and let me tell you the XM interface is sweet!

Wass --

Any problems with your iphone hooking up to the bluetooth. Ive had my 90bt for about a week and i am having constant problems with the bluetooth phone quality. Was at the shop today with no avail, going back tomorrow to switch out the unit, but wondering if u have any had any complaints on the phone quality???