I thought with being a CE device and all the hacking I'd join the club. My first impressions though, not so good. I could not stand the lag and then updated to 2.0. I still think it lags too much (have to press a button a couple times). I also can not stand the button beep! I do like the graphics over the Kenwood which seems to be the downside and why nobody wants the Kenwood. But I prefer functionality first. The knob is much better on the Kenwood with the Pioneer not sticking out far enough. Boot up time though slower I have no issues with. I would just like to ask, what does work good on this unit? Please help. I'm not here to bash, just wondering if I'm missing something.

You're not missing anything; the unit still lacks the finesse that the Kenwood units have.

There are some small changes you can make that will benefit the overall speed of the unit. Look into the HACKS forum for deleteing the keybeeps and increasing the system RAM available.. both will speed the unit up but either is a silver bullet.

So which unit would you recommend, the Pioneer of the Kenwood? I'm just about to buy one or the other.

Do you have any desire to do ipod and phone by voice? If you do, choose the Pioneer. If not, choose the kenwood

Do you have any desire to do ipod and phone by voice? If you do, choose the Pioneer. If not, choose the kenwood

x2

After having the ability to voice dial and play my iPod by simply speaking, it would be hard to go back. Keep in mind I use my iPod as my primary music source in the car and have 7k+ songs, so it makes it VERY convenient for me. Is the unit perfect? By ALL means no... is it functional to the point I can live with it and enjoy using it? Yes. Had you asked me before the 2.0 update you may have gotten a much different answer.

That was one of the things I liked about the Pioneers was the "Sync" like features. Seems to be a mixed bag on how well it works.

That was one of the things I liked about the Pioneers was the "Sync" like features. Seems to be a mixed bag on how well it works.

Mine works almost flawlessly... *knock on wood*

That was one of the things I liked about the Pioneers was the "Sync" like features. Seems to be a mixed bag on how well it works.

 

Mine works almost flawlessly... *knock on wood*

I feel the same, if only the Parrot would iron out their buggy ass bluetooth and Pioneer would make some of those drive-you-crazy quirks their unit has a load of

Do you have any desire to do ipod and phone by voice? If you do, choose the Pioneer. If not, choose the kenwood

Phone voice dialing, definately. I'm upgrading from an AVIC-D2 for that reason pretty much. The Kenwood has a BT module that works. I'm primarily interested in the Kenwood solely for the Garmin software, otherwise I'd go with Pioneer. Any thoughts on this??

Do you have any desire to do ipod and phone by voice? If you do, choose the Pioneer. If not, choose the kenwood

 

Phone voice dialing, definately. I'm upgrading from an AVIC-D2 for that reason pretty much. The Kenwood has a BT module that works. I'm primarily interested in the Kenwood solely for the Garmin software, otherwise I'd go with Pioneer. Any thoughts on this??

I honestly prefer Garmin's nav software but I use the nav portion so little to get where I am going that I could not base my purchase on that... iGo is getting me where I need to go and since changing up the nav screen to look clean and organized, I am happy with it.

I honestly prefer Garmin's nav software but I use the nav portion so little to get where I am going that I could not base my purchase on that... iGo is getting me where I need to go and since changing up the nav screen to look clean and organized, I am happy with it.

The whole 2d/North up is a turnoff and I'm not sure how well the 3d will work for me (I'm so used to the 'standard' 2d view). While I LOVED my AVIC, I always missed Garmin quality when it came time to travel.

It just seems there are sooo many complaints on this unit, its a bit discouraging. I suppose if I had any idea where the Kenwood forums are I'd find complaints there too.

That was one of the things I liked about the Pioneers was the "Sync" like features. Seems to be a mixed bag on how well it works.

By mixed bag do you mean sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't OR do you mean for some people it works, for others it doesnt?

FYI, the Kenwood bluetooth is Parrot also.

Does the 90BT do split screens at turns like my AVIC-D2? (The left splt shows a close up of the turn/intersection)

Just use 3D mode and use the crosshairs to tilt your viewing angle to almost straight down. Looks almost exactly like 2D and will give you the north heading you are looking for

 

The whole 2d/North up is a turnoff and I'm not sure how well the 3d will work for me (I'm so used to the 'standard' 2d view). While I LOVED my AVIC, I always missed Garmin quality when it came time to travel.

 

It just seems there are sooo many complaints on this unit, its a bit discouraging. I suppose if I had any idea where the Kenwood forums are I'd find complaints there too.

Yeah, but the Kenwood bluetooth works. It's all in the coding from KW/Pioneer that makes the difference. I have both a DNX8120 and the F700BT with V2.0, both have Parrot. On the Kenwood, all my contacts come over INSTANTLY, EVERY single time I use the unit. No managing or updating has to be done, where as with the Pioneer, I have to manually send over the contacts 10 at a time.

I'm removing and selling my 700BT as of tonight. It dropped my iPod 3 out of 4 times starting up tonight, I made a bluetooth call which caused the unit to restart after the call ended, made another bluetooth call after which the audio from any source refused to come back on and the call dialog just sat there on the map screen for a good minute. The voice control works pretty well though.

Though, right now, I can't wait to get back to the Kenwood/Garmin combo tonight, which has served me perfectly since June (I bought the 8120 shortly after getting an F700BT and F90BT at launch and seeing what a POS it was at launch). If you want flawless bluetooth, great nav with free map updates (Laptop hooked up to USB on back of the Kenwood; you can load unlocked maps from the intarwebz) and super fast iPod connection, all in a package that takes about 20 sec to full boot WITH all functions ready to go at that time, then by all means you can NOT go wrong with any of the Kenwood units.

I have owned:

-Avic-D3 (Jul 07-Mar 08 )

-DNX5120 (Mar 08-Jun 08 ) (Happy with D3, but wanted better, Flash based nav, sold it too soon when I heard about the F-series, expecting the F series to be a D3 with VR and better Nav with no discs)

-F700BT (Jun 08 for 3 days) (Ungodly buggy, thought it was defective and returned it for the F90BT.

-F90BT (Jun 08 for about 3 days) (Still buggy, DO NOT WANT, returned it for 8120)

-DNX8120 (Jun 08 - Present) (All my problems solved, loved everything about it. Set it and forget it. Not the prettiest, but definitely the smartest. XM Navtraffic and XM through the Garmin are awesome.)

-F700BT - Got it the day 2.0 came out, hearing about how so much was supposedly fixed. They did come a long, LONG, LONG way since launch. Boot time much improved, better screen brightness, hacking scene helped improve it a bit more, but still very buggy on the bluetooth and nav front.

So, as you can see I have opened my dash and soldered more wires than I care to ever count. I drive. A LOT. I'm on the road quite a bit and have a lot of time to explore every nook and crannie and feature of all these decks.

Things I will miss about the F series:

-Voice control

-More detailed maps

-High resolution screen and smoother fonts

-XM channel logos (Stupid, but I can't help it, I love things like this)

-Ability to make iPod album art big and small

-Rotary volume knob

-Illumination matching interior

-Ability to direct dial POI

Things I will not miss:

-Generally insensitive touch screen, and tiny, half assed "Back" button

-Crappy robotic text-to-speech

-Bluetooth call screen going to map

-Nav voice won't shut up, though mute button mod helped

-iPod dropping half the time at bootup

-Long ass boot time

-Slowdown in system software upon ending bluetooth call

-Kinda inaccurate GPS positioning (Will show me taking a turn, when in actuality I'm waiting at the intersection)

-Having to rebuild and resend a database of contacts God forbid I had to add a new phone number.

So as you can tell from my list, most of what I will miss about the Pioneer is cosmetic and what I don't like is mostly functional stuff. Just balance out what is more important to you and make your decision. I REALLY, REALLY wanted to like the Pioneer, I gave it about a week and a half of extensive usage and kinda knew from about the 3rd day or so that I would end up putting my KW back in. I really, really tried to make the F700 work, I tried to convince myself that the bugs didn't matter. But, I am a heavy bluetooth and nav user, being on the road all the time and to me, these functions are top priority to have them work and work well. There's no Kenwood modding forum for a reason; it doesn't really need it. If you're not a heavy nav user and can live with the bugs and maybe don't use bluetooth that often, then the F700 is a very good value. It looks good, sounds great, but is still very buggy/sluggish and will probably be that way until the next generation is out. Hope this helps some.

Just use 3D mode and use the crosshairs to tilt your viewing angle to almost straight down. Looks almost exactly like 2D and will give you the north heading you are looking for

 

 

The whole 2d/North up is a turnoff and I'm not sure how well the 3d will work for me (I'm so used to the 'standard' 2d view). While I LOVED my AVIC, I always missed Garmin quality when it came time to travel.

 

It just seems there are sooo many complaints on this unit, its a bit discouraging. I suppose if I had any idea where the Kenwood forums are I'd find complaints there too.

Good suggestion, but you still have the limitation of not being able to zoom out very far in 3D mode compared to 2D.

The Kenwood Bluetooth is far from flawless it just depends on what phone you are using. The Pioneer Bluetooth works much better with my iPhone 3G. I had a DNX5120 and both units have their pros and cons. For me I am happier with the Pioneer

Good suggestion, but you still have the limitation of not being able to zoom out very far in 3D mode compared to 2D.

You can always change maximum 3D zoom level...

@mikeinnj,

thanks for your excellent review about the kenwood & pioneer decks.

as you can see i have both decks (missus uses the kenwood in her car and i use the pioneer in mine) and fully agree with your review.

the only thing is that the avic-f900bt does has speedpulse and a very good gyroscope what give excellent position.

another thing i miss with the pioneer is dtmf tomes when calling since with the pioneer it's impossible to use automated exchanges and calling your voice mail box. i mean, press 1 for sales, press 2 for support etc. also there is no way to make a private phone call, take you call back from the deck to the phone when calling and no sms text message (read / write). the 5220 does so this with a sony ericsson k660i.

btw, i don't use ipod but usb and sd cards.

Good suggestion, but you still have the limitation of not being able to zoom out very far in 3D mode compared to 2D.

 

You can always change maximum 3D zoom level...

How exactly is that done, a hack?

It's not even really a hack. You're changinbg a configuration setting in iGO's main config file.

In SYS.TXT locate [map] section and addor adjust 3d_max_zoomlevel setting. There's also 3d_max_tilt_level or somesuch setting. Increase it a bit and you will be able to set 3D display completely flat.

It's not even really a hack. You're changinbg a configuration setting in iGO's main config file.

 

In SYS.TXT locate [map] section and addor adjust 3d_max_zoomlevel setting. There's also 3d_max_tilt_level or somesuch setting. Increase it a bit and you will be able to set 3D display completely flat.

That's great to know, thanks! I intend to make this change when I get my unit installed this weekend. Regarding setting the 3D display so that it is completely flat, does that essentially make it comprable to what the map would look like with 2D track up or is there still a little less detail? If in fact this is a way around not having 2D track up, I wonder why more people haven't changed their settings because there is a TON of complaints about not having this orientation within the map view.

It does make it look virtually identical to a 2D Track up, but the only problem is (atleast for me) is that once you restart the unit/start routing somewhere, the default zoom angle comes right back, so you pretty much have to readjust the angle every time you use the thing.

It does make it look virtually identical to a 2D Track up, but the only problem is (atleast for me) is that once you restart the unit/start routing somewhere, the default zoom angle comes right back, so you pretty much have to readjust the angle every time you use the thing.

When you state that the unit reverts back to default each time you re-start the system, are you referring to the angle of the orientation (such as making it more vertical or flat like 2D) or the amount that you can zoom out during 3D mode? These are two different things.

I hope this isn't an issue that everyone is facing because having to make the changes every time you restart the system wouldn't be worth it to me (unless going on a long trip).