fordman03 Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 microsoft might not be a good example, Vista is very buggy for alot of people, and microsoft solution is......... Windows 7... wich you will have to buy (microsoft even said that vista was just a buffer in between XP in Win7) Yes that maybe but you still get free updates on patches, bug fixes etc. and that is the point. They don't charge for patches... I don't know about you but I get them for free. Pioneer is not coming out with a new product (F-Series), they are simply fixing the current device that have been sold. Where are you reading that pioneer is charging for 3.0? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wonderdiva Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Admirably? Really? No offense, but I call that settling... my D3 always did what it was supposed to do with no delayed response. Granted it did not have VR, but I never had to wait 7-8 minutes into driving before being able to use a 'feature' it came with. Also, that 'feature' is based on Microsoft's Sync... I wonder if folks that drive Fords have to wait that long once they crank their car to use it... I highly doubt it. I wonder if when they hang up their phones while using bluetooth if the whole system hangs and then you have to sometimes reboot the unit to get music back. I wonder if they have to unplug their iPod when the system simply decides it does not like it this go around. My F90BT lasted about 6 months before I just could not take it anymore... since I am being honest, the VR function was GREAT when it worked correctly, but that is not enough for me. I don't miss that unit at all and I've been left with a very sour taste in my mouth for Pioneer for releasing such a POS for us to beta test for them. For those with the unit, I certainly root for all of you that they do release a 3.0 update. There are a lot of great people on this board that were a great help when I owned my unit; I think it is only fair that Pioneer fix the problems and continue to support this unit that people paid A LOT of money for... keep in mind, you could not always get them for $600. That's how I feel... I agree with the two posters above - it sounds like you got a bum unit. I'm up and playing from my iPod in a little over 20 seconds, have ZERO problems with Bluetooth, and only had to do a hard reset once since September 2009 when my GPS lost signal with the sats. 7-8 minutes sounds like you either have a bum unit or screwed the firmware update up. Can you exchange your unit from the retailer you bought it from? Not a bum unit man... I am a tech geek through and through and know hardware failure from software mishaps... the unit was not bad, the software is buggy. You will find a LOT of people on this board with ALL of the issues I mentioned, it is not just me and if it is the unit then there are a lot of defective units out there. If your unit works as you say, then I honestly think that is awesome for you, but I have a hard time believing you can use the VR functions to ask it to call someone or ask it to play a song, etc before the unit has been running for at minimum 5 minutes. My unit had 2.0 when I received it so nothing was done to it from my end to make it run the way it did... all comes down to shitty programing. Also, keep in mind as someone else posted, your unit is pretty new. Things you may be willing to live with and accept right now may be an absolute headache in the months to come. If you can accept the units shortcomings, OR if you feel it doesn't have any, then continue enjoying your unit and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. However, I was not willing to live with it when I know how it should work. There are those of us who love it, and those of us who do not... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
memsu Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 i agree i haven't had a single problem with my unit i start my car and it is fully functional before i get to the stop sign at the end of the block about 30 sec and if i am listening to the radio it starts working with in 10 sec the sd card does take up to a min or so but i can live with that i dont use a ipod so i dont know about any probs with it and i would rather pay 500 for my unit and be able to customize it with all the mods on this site then pay 2000 for the kenwood the guy at the stereo shop tried talking me into paying for maps is to be expected no matter whos gps you use and if these units are as faulty as everyone says they are why should pioneer keep spending money to fix them when they could work on developing a new one With the D3 music started up almost as soon as the unit came on. Backup camera came up as soon as I put the car in reverse. Navigation function was up in about 15sec or less. This is how a navigation system is supposed to work. On my F90BT my backup camera is useless unless the car has be started for awhile. Music starts about 20-30 sec after starting the vehicle. Navigation about 45 sec. I'm not even going to talk about the other issues with this unit, but I'll just say the D3 is a much more polished system than the F90BT. I'm selling my F90BT after my Kenwood DNX7120 arrives. At least it uses Garmin maps that you can update on your own using Garmin Mapsource software. You an even add other maps to the Kenwood. Like Topo maps if you like to go offroading. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EnochLight Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Not a bum unit man... I am a tech geek through and through and know hardware failure from software mishaps... the unit was not bad, the software is buggy. You will find a LOT of people on this board with ALL of the issues I mentioned, it is not just me and if it is the unit then there are a lot of defective units out there. If your unit works as you say, then I honestly think that is awesome for you, but I have a hard time believing you can use the VR functions to ask it to call someone or ask it to play a song, etc before the unit has been running for at minimum 5 minutes. My unit had 2.0 when I received it so nothing was done to it from my end to make it run the way it did... all comes down to shitty programing. Also, keep in mind as someone else posted, your unit is pretty new. Things you may be willing to live with and accept right now may be an absolute headache in the months to come. If you can accept the units shortcomings, OR if you feel it doesn't have any, then continue enjoying your unit and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. However, I was not willing to live with it when I know how it should work. There are those of us who love it, and those of us who do not... You know... admittedly... I hardly ever use the VR functions of my unit. I didn't even think about that - if that's the bane of most of your disappointment then I can totally understand. I know that if you don't have the address book in your phone formatted in the exact same way as the example here: - then you are guaranteed to have issues (go to the 8:05 minute mark). Also, once your iPod/iPhone has had its VR Catalog completed once, you should disable VR Cataloging in the settings and it will dramatically decrease your iPod/iPhone startup time in the F-Series. I'm sure you probably already knew that, but figured I'd post it for those reading this thread that are new to the club. Personally I'm pretty satisfied with my F90BT, so it's hard for me to share in everyone's disappointment. I bought mine in August 2008 after the first OS update, and the later transition to 2.0 solidified my approval. If an OS update this summer 2009 improves performance even further (and maybe gets me some new features at the same time), then I'm pretty much on an evangelical mission with mine! Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EnochLight Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 ...Backup camera came up as soon as I put the car in reverse...On my F90BT my backup camera is useless unless the car has be started for awhile. ..I'm selling my F90BT after my Kenwood DNX7120 arrives. At least it uses Garmin maps that you can update on your own using Garmin Mapsource software. You an even add other maps to the Kenwood. Like Topo maps if you like to go offroading. Could you define "started for awhile"? I am on the fence on buying a reverse image backup camera for my F90BT, and I've read a few users in these forums reporting that there cameras come on after a few seconds after starting their car. Which camera are you using with yours? The Kenwood DNX7120 is a couple hundred dollars more than the F90BT, and that's without the Bluetooth add-on module and KCA-iP300 iPod cable. And there's no voice control. Is it really a fair comparison? That said I would totally prefer the Garmin navigation solution - that's very cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
memsu Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 ...Backup camera came up as soon as I put the car in reverse...On my F90BT my backup camera is useless unless the car has be started for awhile. ..I'm selling my F90BT after my Kenwood DNX7120 arrives. At least it uses Garmin maps that you can update on your own using Garmin Mapsource software. You an even add other maps to the Kenwood. Like Topo maps if you like to go offroading. Could you define "started for awhile"? I am on the fence on buying a reverse image backup camera for my F90BT, and I've read a few users in these forums reporting that there cameras come on after a few seconds after starting their car. Which camera are you using with yours? The Kenwood DNX7120 is a couple hundred dollars more than the F90BT, and that's without the Bluetooth add-on module and KCA-iP300 iPod cable. And there's no voice control. Is it really a fair comparison? That said I would totally prefer the Garmin navigation solution - that's very cool. Started for awhile Basically when I start up the truck, put my seatbelt on, put it in reverse, and start backing up my backup camera never comes up till just as I'm done backing up and starting to go forward. Totally useless if you're done backing up already. However, it is cool to guide you when backing up to a trailer. I never used the bluetooth on the Avic F90BT because it sounded horrible. My factory Nissan bluetooth system was much better. I also never used the voice control, because it never really worked for me either. It didn't agree with my southern accent Yes, the Kenwood is a few hundred more, but I think totally worth it over the F90BT. Keep in mind most of my experience has been with the D3 which had non of the issues of the F90BT. I can't stand the lack of track up in 2D mode. In 3D mode I can't zoom out far enough. The unit lags a lot. It takes awhile to register I took a turn (VSS is hooked up). It's harder to find a location. With the D3 you could at least fool the unit when searching for something. I had a remote control on the D3 which was awesome no remote option on F90BT. Static noise from speakers any time you push a button. Sound quality overall isn't as good as the D3. Oh, and a pathetic volume knob. I do like the display and screen resolution, but that's it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewickj Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 well i have never used the VR controls i dont have an ipod and i used the phone book software in another thread to change the order of my contacts so the ones i call most are at the top of the list makes it easy enough for me and as for the back up camera i always back in to parking spaces so i can pull out when i get in my truck mostly because my truck is so big that it makes it easier to get in and out of places so i havent noticed that the back up camera doesnt work right away now i would love to have the toppo maps on my unit that would be very handy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gremlin190 Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 EnochLight Just turn the backup cam on without hooking up a camera. I'm guessing you don't HAVE to have a camera because it's just displaying a rca feed. Mine by no means takes this long. I start the car, put the seatbelt on and then throw it into reverse and bam, I get the backup cam blank display on my screen. SInce I don't have a cam I can't see anything, but I wouldn't think this would affect the speed of allowing an input to display on a screen. Is it possible Pioneeer upgraded there hardware too... I have the 700bt so that may be a difference too... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
etnpnys Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Just turn the backup cam on without hooking up a camera. Good idea - you could just make sure the reverse wire is connected and then test it out to see if it's GOING TO work for you... Before you spend the $$ and all... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gruvncubn Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I think you're missing my point - the fact that the tech didn't exist 10-20 years ago isn't what I'm talking about. I'm eluding to the typical 'net attitude towards free software updates. In it's current form - that is the 2.0 Firmware - the F-series performs well. Start-up time for core features is acceptable, stability is fine, and it generally works as advertised. If you're having issues (like the ones that wonderdiva mentioned), you probably have defective hardware that should have been returned or exchanged under warranty. The vast majority of users do not experience these issues. For people - and it would appear yourself included - to feel as though you are owed a free software update to further enhance performance - I just think that's preposterous. Where in any of the advertising or literature does it say that if you buy any of their F-series products that you will continue to get free updates? It doesn't. So why would you think that you are owed them? And no - I'm not talking about map updates... I'm talking about OS/feature updates? And every year there's a hardware re-fresh, usually with new or enhanced features. That's what keeps moving the products along. Am I supposed to complain that I'm being slighted just because I bought last year's models and didn't get the new hardware features for free?!! Don't get me wrong - the F-series in Firmware 1.0 was practically a beta test and not worth the money. The update that came out shortly thereafter made it more bearable but still not quite what one would expect - I know I wasn't satisfied. So finally at the end of 2008 we get 2.0 and it feels like an actual release-worthy product. I'm pretty happy with it. So are most users. Do we want more? YES! Should we expect it to be free? NO. Can we hope that it is free? YES! If you believe that the F-series is perfect then fine Pioneer should charge for their updates. But Pioneer doesn't charge for firmware update and either does any of the other manufactures. Most manufacturing companies that includes Pioneer release 2-3 firmware updates for current or past product models then leave them as is and focuses on their new products. That is how you build core or even die-hard fan of a brand. In your statement you said; "Start-up time for core features is acceptable, stability is fine, and it generally works as advertised." This doesn't sound like you are sure of the product when you use words like acceptable, fine or it generally works. My point is that do you really think it should be left as is? I don't think so. So why should we pay for update that fixes an issue that shouldn't been their in the first place. To tell you the truth I love my F90, but it does not mean that it is flawless. Having said that you are not going to find another unit that comes with all the features my F90 has and def not for the money. But the devil is in the details and that where Pioneer dropped the ball. This unit could have been great, the best Nav HU but instead it's mediocre. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gruvncubn Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 microsoft might not be a good example, Vista is very buggy for alot of people, and microsoft solution is......... Windows 7... wich you will have to buy (microsoft even said that vista was just a buffer in between XP in Win7) Yes that maybe but you still get free updates on patches, bug fixes etc. and that is the point. They don't charge for patches... I don't know about you but I get them for free. Pioneer is not coming out with a new product (F-Series), they are simply fixing the current device that have been sold. Where are you reading that pioneer is charging for 3.0? Have you read this thread? It 's through out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gruvncubn Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Admirably? Really? No offense, but I call that settling... my D3 always did what it was supposed to do with no delayed response. Granted it did not have VR, but I never had to wait 7-8 minutes into driving before being able to use a 'feature' it came with. Also, that 'feature' is based on Microsoft's Sync... I wonder if folks that drive Fords have to wait that long once they crank their car to use it... I highly doubt it. I wonder if when they hang up their phones while using bluetooth if the whole system hangs and then you have to sometimes reboot the unit to get music back. I wonder if they have to unplug their iPod when the system simply decides it does not like it this go around. My F90BT lasted about 6 months before I just could not take it anymore... since I am being honest, the VR function was GREAT when it worked correctly, but that is not enough for me. I don't miss that unit at all and I've been left with a very sour taste in my mouth for Pioneer for releasing such a POS for us to beta test for them. For those with the unit, I certainly root for all of you that they do release a 3.0 update. There are a lot of great people on this board that were a great help when I owned my unit; I think it is only fair that Pioneer fix the problems and continue to support this unit that people paid A LOT of money for... keep in mind, you could not always get them for $600. That's how I feel... I agree with the two posters above - it sounds like you got a bum unit. I'm up and playing from my iPod in a little over 20 seconds, have ZERO problems with Bluetooth, and only had to do a hard reset once since September 2009 when my GPS lost signal with the sats. 7-8 minutes sounds like you either have a bum unit or screwed the firmware update up. Can you exchange your unit from the retailer you bought it from? Not a bum unit man... I am a tech geek through and through and know hardware failure from software mishaps... the unit was not bad, the software is buggy. You will find a LOT of people on this board with ALL of the issues I mentioned, it is not just me and if it is the unit then there are a lot of defective units out there. If your unit works as you say, then I honestly think that is awesome for you, but I have a hard time believing you can use the VR functions to ask it to call someone or ask it to play a song, etc before the unit has been running for at minimum 5 minutes. My unit had 2.0 when I received it so nothing was done to it from my end to make it run the way it did... all comes down to shitty programing. Also, keep in mind as someone else posted, your unit is pretty new. Things you may be willing to live with and accept right now may be an absolute headache in the months to come. If you can accept the units shortcomings, OR if you feel it doesn't have any, then continue enjoying your unit and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. However, I was not willing to live with it when I know how it should work. There are those of us who love it, and those of us who do not... Amen brother. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malex930 Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Never mind all of the paying issues and things like that....does anyone have any insight as to when this is actually supposed to come out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CitizenX Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 If your backup camera is not turning on quickly, then you most likely wired it wrong. Every system we do, you can get backup camera within 7-8 seconds after turning on the car. Just make sure the camera's power wire is hooked to accessory, and not to the reverse trigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobhope Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Guys lets get the thread back on track and stop discussing our personal issues with our units and get back to discussing firmware news. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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