johnny88 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I've called 2 different places that install indash navs along with visiting Boomer today (which is a reputable place in Boston) for these kinds of things. They're telling me that for my vehicle, a C-Class benz, they'd have to rewire the whole car due to the car's stock audio wiring not being able to pair right with the avic. He told me to google avic+mercedes+harness and that "i'd see what he means". This is a convo i read on a mercedes owner who had installed avic on youtube... nbkn5se1 (6 months ago): Nice work. However, I got a few questions: How did you get around the fiber optics that wired you OEM Bose system? Did you have to rewire the entire car? I have a 04 C230 kompresor and I am unable to hook up the F900 because according Best Buy the whole system will have to be replace including speakers. Any tips or advice of how you got it done? cno1995 (6 months ago): With Bose there is no need to re-wire the entire car. I had this professionally installed by All Pro Audio in Santa Clara - guys are awesome. With Bose you will lose your amp (since it is fiber) - so your rear subs will drive directly from the Avic - all other speakers are fine - except the center dash speaker (which is very small) - you will lose it. The sound is way better now with the Avic. Is what he says right? Should i bring this in to the guy and tell him that other people have been able to hook up a benz with an avic just fine? What does he mean when he says "your rear subs will drive directly from avic - ?all other speakers are fine? " Please your help is greatly appreciated because I cant seem to find an answer for this anywhere and I want to be able to install this soon. The car will be bought this weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minifreezer Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 He means that the reasr subs will not be connectned to the factory amp, they will have to be connected to the avic andit will power the subs. There is no reason that you can not hook up the avic. What the installers are telling you are true. They will have to splice into your car wiring for the avic unit to receive power, ground, and key on (iginition pwer). Most of the re-wire will come from wiring the avic up to the rest of the audio equipment in the car. Your factory unit uses fiberoptics to power the factory amp and possibly some other audio equipment and the avic does not support fiber optics output for powering a amp. So the unit can be installed but it will not be a plug and play like most cars, where you buy a harness, wire it to the avic and then plug the harness into your existing car harness and you are done. It is also not a complete rewire unless you want the center channel and the factory amp to work (that is of cousre you cant' run a power wire from the battery and a remote power wire from the avic to your amp) Hope this helps and good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Will there be significant quality loss if i lose the factory amp as you say? They told me theyd need to rewire the whole car, and asked for about $1000 for this (excluding my cost for the avic). Compared to the guy from youtube it just doesn't seem as difficult or complicated as they made it out to be. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to all this so I'm not sure what you mean when you say the center channel. Are you talking about the stock unit thats already there? I don't need exceptional quality as long as it sounds as good as the car did originally I'll be happy with the installation. The guy from youtube says that he doesn't mind losing the amp and that it actually sounded better with avic along with "all other speakers sounding fine". So do you think if I show them your answer, along with that other guy from youtube's answer, where you both say I don't need the amp, that their price would go lower because 1000 seems like a lot... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minifreezer Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 The center channel is the center speaker in the dashboard. From what I have read from your first post is that your car has 5.1 of sorts audio set up. A center speaker, left and right front speakers, left and right rear speakers, and a sub-woofer or bass speaker. I am not familure with your cars actual speaker setup, except for the YouTube guy telling you about the center speaker and amp and that's what Leeds me to believe you have a 5.1 setup. Usually the amp runs the sub-woofer and I suspect your Benz does exactly that. The avic only has front left and right, rear left and right, and some rca out puts for running an aftermarket amp Even though I am not completely familure with your cars exact audio setup I do know about electronics, electrical systems, wiring, and electronic principles...that's what I do for a living I teach Aircraft electronics and electrical systems, and electronic principles for the Community College of the Air Force. With that being said I know they can install the avic without having to re-wire the whole car. The only way I can see a complete rewire would be if the every wire on your car was fiber optic and I doubt that is the case. The wire they will have to run to the avic are a constant power wire (wire that has power with the car off and key out), a wire that has power only when the car is on or the key is in the acc position, ground wire, and the wire going to the speakers that is it. As far as sound quality the only thing I can compare to is a dodge ram, I do not have Benz (wish I did). When I installed my avic into my truck I noticed a big difference in sound quality even with the factory speakers. They were clearer, the tonal rang had drastically improved, and the dynamic range was allot wider. With your Benz you may not experience the same dramatic difference because you stock system is already leap and bonds better than my dodge's. My guess is that you will notice a improvement of sorts, but also notice that amp not powering the sub-woofer. Hope this helps your decision. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks a lot that helps. My only doubt now is that the guy on you tube owned a 2004 c class while i will own a 2006 c class. Don't know how much this will change any of your assumptions of my stereo and thus your answer but hope not too much. Can you tell me in a few words what i could suggest for them to do so that they understand that I know a rewiring isnt 100% necessary and that the simpler method you described is all i'd need? I'm running out of places to visit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 The center channel is the center speaker in the dashboard. From what I have read from your first post is that your car has 5.1 of sorts audio set up. A center speaker, left and right front speakers, left and right rear speakers, and a sub-woofer or bass speaker. I am not familure with your cars actual speaker setup, except for the YouTube guy telling you about the center speaker and amp and that's what Leeds me to believe you have a 5.1 setup. Usually the amp runs the sub-woofer and I suspect your Benz does exactly that. The avic only has front left and right, rear left and right, and some rca out puts for running an aftermarket amp My guess is that you will notice a improvement of sorts, but also notice that amp not powering the sub-woofer. Hope this helps your decision. Does this mean that if they install the avic without re-wiring then the subwoofer won't work given that the amp is not working? Would I lose most of my bass given that these two arent working? I'm not a fan of crazy loud bass, but i'm nervous that this means lack of bass at a standard level. Sorry for my lack of knowledge in the field.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minifreezer Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 The center channel is the center speaker in the dashboard. From what I have read from your first post is that your car has 5.1 of sorts audio set up. A center speaker, left and right front speakers, left and right rear speakers, and a sub-woofer or bass speaker. I am not familure with your cars actual speaker setup, except for the YouTube guy telling you about the center speaker and amp and that's what Leeds me to believe you have a 5.1 setup. Usually the amp runs the sub-woofer and I suspect your Benz does exactly that. The avic only has front left and right, rear left and right, and some rca out puts for running an aftermarket amp My guess is that you will notice a improvement of sorts, but also notice that amp not powering the sub-woofer. Hope this helps your decision. Does this mean that if they install the avic without re-wiring then the subwoofer won't work given that the amp is not working? Would I lose most of my bass given that these two arent working? I'm not a fan of crazy loud bass, but i'm nervous that this means lack of bass at a standard level. Sorry for my lack of knowledge in the field.. Yes, without the re-wire you will lose the sub-woofer. You have three options. 1) You can pay for the installers to purchase all of the components that they need to convert the avics analog amp power to a fiber-optic signal and the sub will still be powered from the amp. 2) They can wire the sub directly to the avic, but you will lose the boastfull base. 3) Purchase another amplifier and run your sub-woofer off of that You do not have to appologize for anything. You might want to talk to you Benz dealer and see if they have any other options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 OK so at mbworld.com i found a very long thread about the indash navs and mercedes c class. People say you can just bypass the amp and let the avic power the speakers. I think this is basically what you're also saying right? When they say bypass are they basically saying as a given that the sub isnt working either? Seems like the place told me theyd have to rewire it just so I could pay the higher alternative. Wonder if theyd bypass it if i go back and ask for this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minifreezer Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 OK so at mbworld.com i found a very long thread about the indash navs and mercedes c class. People say you can just bypass the amp and let the avic power the speakers. I think this is basically what you're also saying right? When they say bypass are they basically saying as a given that the sub isnt working either? Seems like the place told me theyd have to rewire it just so I could pay the higher alternative. Wonder if theyd bypass it if i go back and ask for this. That is exactly what i am saying. I would think that they would have given you the option. You can have the avic power the sub woofer but it will not be as robust as it was with the amp. If the factory amp powers all the speaker they will have to run speaker wire from the avic to the car speakers, but that is not $1000's worth of wiring. That is more like $20-25 cost in wire at the price they probably pay for it and about 4 hours worh of labor i would think (maybe 6 hours after all it is a Mercedes and German engineering is superb so it might take a little more time to get door panels off and to get to the dash speakers). Hell radioshack sells 50ft of 16-gauge speaker wire for $12.00, that is more than enough wire to wire every speaker in your car, and if you are not going to run an amp 16-gauge is plenty big enough to handle the wattage that the avic puts out. Hope this helps you out and you get everything that you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Thanks a lot you've been great help. Another place nearby offered 600$ for the re-wiring but also never gave me the option of just bypassing the amp. I wonder how much cheaper it'll be if i ask for this alternative. I'm going to ask a couple of other respectable places here and I'll reup my price quotes. Thanks for all your help. PS- anybody know if the P90BT comes with the 2 year warranty automatically? Or only if i buy it from a authorized seller. There's one 40 mi away from me but I don't know what his prices are going to be and if its better to just buy from amazon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I just got off the fone with the 3rd place. I told them that instead of rewiring the whole car I was just looking to bypass the amp and power everything through the avic itself. They're response was "yeah bypassing it requires some rewiring to get at least acceptable quality and thats 80$ an hour for the installation aka 4 hours = 320$. Then he said this doesnt include installation of the antenn, adaptors (bluetooth also i think?) and that id have to add installation charge for those also. Again im guessing I'm up to the 600$ quote that another shop gave me. I don't know but it seems like im getting some unfair pricing. I'm currently asking some users of the mbworld.org forums for quotes they've installed it for as quick as 2-3 hours. As for the pioneer distributor inMassachusetts, they said they wont touch a mercedes. On top of that their price was 1000$ for the F90. On amazon its 600$ but does anyone know if this includes the warranty? Ive heard of some people saying that pioneer told them "its not from us so we cant touch it". Don't know if in order to get the 2 year warranty i HAVE to buy from a official distributor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minifreezer Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I have an F90bBT that i ordered from eBay and i have the 2 year warranty. I had to register it with pioneer and if i have a problem i have to send it in to pioneer. As fas as install on your car, the bluetooth is internal to the unit so there is nothing they have to install or wire or anything for that. The gps antenna is just a small pod that has wire that you plug into the back of the unit, i can see that taking 20 min to place it run the wire and plug it into the unit I agree with the installer about the wiring like i had told you earlier, but that is simple wiring. If they are charging $80 an hour for install plus parts (wire, install bezel if your car needs it) i can see the $600. I still think it is a little high. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny88 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Yeah i found another place that will do it for 300$. It was the first place that knew exactly what i was talking about and the first place that said it wouldnt be a problem. I'll see what they say once I take the car to them. Thanks a lot for the help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
minifreezer Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 God luck and i hope they treat you right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeffrey.pimentel Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 let me know if you end up needing an install still i'm originally from the methuen lawrence haverhill area and know a few people out there that know what you need and it would only be a couple hundred Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.