tickerguy Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 How does that tool know what the response is in your phone's mic? There are several different models of iPhone and dozens if not hundreds of Android devices, each with different hardware elements in them. I looked at a couple of Android versions of that software and the decibel gradations are so far apart as to make it worthless for anything "real" when it comes to audio tuning. I suspect the iPhone version is the same. If you're going to use an audio spectrum analyzer in an attempt to get a flat response you need to have the response curve of the microphone that is in use and null the unit in question so it's the inverse of that curve, or "flat" isn't flat! Finding a pink noise track in WAV format or similar is easy. The hard part is measuring accurately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spankey Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 It may not know what response is in your mic, but you can run an auto-eq with the pioneer mic, then run pink noise through the app and check the graph to see the results through the current eq settings. Repeat with different mic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Sorry for being so vague. I tried the mic from my Pioneer Elite a few times and results were very muted unclear undifinded sound and all the outputs were very attenuated maybe due to the fact I have a standard cab pickup and since my amps are older the lowest input gain settings are hotter than sould be with this head unit. Also any position in the listening position settings is very flat and am radio sounding compared to the listening position being turned off. I hate the fact the auto EQ changes the crossover settings. WHY? If it doesnt know what size speakers you have how can it pick appropriate settings? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Going to try the Audio Technica today. I am going to combine the stereo in to a mono out put and leave the low cut off. This mic has a 20-15k range Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tickerguy Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 That should work pretty good..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spankey Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Which Audio Technica mic are you using. Post the results if you can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Ok did some listening with the EQ of the pioneer microphone and it wasn't that bad unless you turn on the listening position to all then sounds bad. I reset calibration with my audio Technica AT 822 stereo Mike and got very good results not a whole lot better but better. A couple things I still don't see auto EQ lit up when I am on the music page just the normal EQ button to go to the EQ menu. Of course it reset my crossover settings so my front speakers have no high pass crossover applied, my rear had 125 Hz which it probably is okay for 5 1/4 separates. The sub is at 80 with reverse phase which sounds good but I think it could use more midbass somewhere in the 100 to 125 range X over setting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I ended up adding HPF to the front at 50hz -18dB slope and leaving the other xover at the auto dictated settings in the about post. Pretty happy with the sound in all listening positions except all which sounds very hollow. I also thought it would indicate the auto EQ is on like the old AVH units did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I would not suggest getting an expensive mic for this purpose unless there is a good return policy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
myke2241 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 You will need one that is: 1. Omnidirectional. DO NOT use a cardiod pattern mic! 2. Has a TR/2-conductor plug. This will be the hard part. MOST good mics have a THREE-conductor plug (either TRS or XLR) because they want power (for their capsule) from the device they're connected to. You need either to provide that and then feed the head from there on a 2-conductor plug or have a mic that has its power (and battery) inline or in the mic itself. The "CD-MC20" that Pioneer sells is IMHO trash. I got my fancy gear out and checked it. It's not linear at all. Blech. Then again, for $20 I guess it's not THAT bad -- but I sure wouldn't mic someone up with it and expect good results. So I plugged in a nice-quality (not one my best A/V Sennheisers as I didn't have the necessary interconnects to get it power yet not feed a high-level signal out of it, but one of my "decent" lavs that I have in my bag of tricks for times I can't use phantom power as the thing I want to feed doesn't know how to provide it) mic to the head unit and ran the auto-cal. Talk about waking up the mid and high end..... the result was VERY nice. Most people after trying the "auto-cal" will find it flat and lifeless if they use the MC20 -- this of course leads everyone to say "just do it manually." The problem is that unless you have a pink noise source and 'scope you CAN'T do it accurately manually, and the head has no provisions to manually set the EQ for the front and rear speakers individually, but it appears it DOES when you run AutoEQ. So find someone with a real mic and run it again, then tweak THAT if you want. The goal is to flatten out the base frequency curve to account for the acoustics in the car, then modify from there if you want for how you'd like it to sound. Incidentally the time correction is worth it, even if you manually set the EQ, so if all you have is an MC20 use it for the time correction and then shut off auto-eq leaving the time correction on. One other thing to be aware of is if you have a sub get anything under 100Hz off the door speakers. It will do wonderful things for midrange clarity. The head seems to like to set the crossover for the sub around 80Hz or so. You'll win big in the clarity department if you move it up around 100-125, and check the phasing on the sub when you're done because the head will get that wrong a good part of the time too. With the MC20 is often will decide to leave the HPF off with the door speakers, especially in the front -- that's a bad idea in general. If you move the crossover frequency up you will probably need to also dial the sub's output down another db or two, but that's a matter of individual preference. Enjoy. interesting argument but do you realize Pioneer may have calibrated their auto EQ software to match the curve of the CD-MC20? ​The reason you don't use "cardiod" is that it suffers from proximity effect. in a small space proximity effect becomes more pronounced. Omnidirectional mics do not suffer from proximity effect. TRS = Balanced TR = Unbalanced which is fine because its a interconnect length. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tickerguy Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 interesting argument but do you realize Pioneer may have calibrated their auto EQ software to match the curve of the CD-MC20? ​The reason you don't use "cardiod" is that it suffers from proximity effect. in a small space proximity effect becomes more pronounced. Omnidirectional mics do not suffer from proximity effect. TRS = Balanced TR = Unbalanced which is fine because its a interconnect length. I thought they might have, which is why I didn't know whether it would produce superior results or not. But.... it turns out it does, which strongly implies they didn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 I thought they might have, which is why I didn't know whether it would produce superior results or not. But.... it turns out it does, which strongly implies they didn't. You actually contradicted your self with this reply, have you tried the MC20? Thinking about makes me pissed that they couldnt include the mic that costs them around $4-5 so they try to get us to add one for $20+ thanks a lot Pionearly cheap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tickerguy Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 You actually contradicted your self with this reply, have you tried the MC20? Thinking about makes me pissed that they couldnt include the mic that costs them around $4-5 so they try to get us to add one for $20+ thanks a lot Pionearly cheap No I didn't, and yes, I have an MC20. The results it produces blow hairy chunks. Save your $20 and either use a good mic you own or find someone who has one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shackleton Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Ok now I get your point, you seamed to be saying they didn't calibrate the firm ware for that mic but the results were good! I used my Audio technica at822 msrp $499 with good results I still think so fine tweeking could be done on top of the auto eq but I dont think I can have a custom eq and the auto on at the same time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tickerguy Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Actually you can. With AutoEQ on the manual equalization is on top of the automatic profile..... which is quite nice! From everything I can determine the head unit expects a flat microphone on the auto-cal input (which of course is a pipe dream, but it's far better for them to do that than to try to invert the response curve of a particular other mic!) -- so the better your mic is, the better your autocal results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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