Cenedd Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Has anyone come across this problem before? I've installed into a Toyota GT86 (aka Sion FR-S and Subaru BRZ) and when I start the engine there is a delay of a goo minute before the unit starts...and I'm not talking about being ready, I mean any sign of life at all. After a minute it then gives the Pioneer Navigate splash screen and then the infamous "Loading...". Sometimes though it's either immediate or quite soon. Doesn't seem to be related to battery (GT86 is known for weak battery) as engine starts fist time and also after a long drive (that charges the battery) it isn't always faster. Currently connected: FM antenna USB2 to dash USB socket via retention adapter. Makes no difference if nothing plugged into it. No DAB antenna connected - haven't got one yet. GPS antenna (Pioneer supplied mag-mount) Hands free mic Power antenna powers FM antenna amplifier but this supposedly is only 50mA so shouldn't be too much draw. Parking brake - grounded to main harness ground wire. I tried updating firmware from 1.01 to 1.03 but it made no difference. Could just be a faulty unit but it's odd as it works fine once started. Any thoughts? Many thanks, Gareth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
493008 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 The accessory connection getting power is what tells the unit to turn on. Have you confirmed that connection is solid, and gets power as soon as you turn the key? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thanks 493008. Fairly sure it does as I poked it with a multimeter when I was checking the voltage coming out the power antenna remote on line. Also, it doesn't go through the whole 'Choose you language' setup routing so I'm daily sure it's not that the Acc and Batt leads are swapped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackforge Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'm seeing the same thing with my Subaru BRZ (manual transmission) and my NEX8100. Both with stock amp/speakers and the custom amp/speakers I installed. Only seems to happen with engine start and pretty much works every time when you put the car in ACC mode (I have a push button start). My current workaround is kick ACC on and then immediately start the engine and it boots right up. Otherwise, if you let it sit it does eventually boot up. Thought it was the harness connections at first. Though I have tried both the harness I assembled and pre-assembled harnesses from Enfig that are a pioneer to universal, universal to Toyota connection. So for whatever reason, when the car has been sitting for a while, the radio isn't detecting ACC immediately during engine start. Though it works almost every time (there was one time it didn't) in ACC. So ACC voltage fluctuation at start that the radio gets confused by? I'm hoping it could be fixed by firmware, but not sure. Otherwise, both of us have the same hardware issue with the same vehicle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thanks Blackforge that's really helpful to know. Pioneer here just said it sounded like a faulty unit and to get it changed...but I just had a feeling it would be a waste of time and postage. I thought it was working when not mounted in the dash but could well have been that I was only using Acc when not mounted. I'll try to test acc before engine start and also see if I can get a voltage reading on the Acc line when starting...although I'd expect voltage drop while the engine is cranking. I wonder whether there is anything odd about push-button start (you do have that on your car, right?) that means the voltage does something different like 0,12,7,12V as it cranks rather than 0,12,7,0,12V where a key is being turned...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackforge Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Yes, I have a push button start and proximity keys. I was also curious about the battery itself maybe not being quite up to snuff as well and considered swapping it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 There's certainly a known weakness on UK models. Apparently some of the cells die: http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/flat-battery_topic2085.html On the other hand mine starts first time and doesn't seem to have trouble cranking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just a small update. Spoke to Pioneer support in the UK and they haven't seen this issue before. They say they've got a unit installed in a Subaru BRZ with push-button start and it works fine. Next step is to get a multimeter on the acc line and see exactly what happens when you push 'start'. Not sure if my multimeter will read fast enough though...but worth a shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
koush Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just a thought could be a canbus problem. I have a SEAT Leon, and it does not have an ignition wire, but switches on through the canbus system. My unit can take up to 45 sec to start sometimes. Most Leon owners run a separate ignition wire to operate their after market units. Koush Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks Koush. That at least explains why Pioneer were asking about can bus! It's available on the car but not understood by the head unit apparently even with a Maestro unit. It's possible they've done something odd with the Acc wire but the oem unit turned on fine so I'm suspecting it's something odd about the voltage it's seeing as the engine cranks. I've bid on an oscilloscope on ebay to see if I can get a decent idea of what it does. There is an Option connector with an acc line but I'd imagine it'll be the same. Wonder if a relay with the permanent live as supply and acc as trigger would work. Guess I'm not going to know until I get something a bit faster than a multimeter on it. I promise to post back if I get an answer though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
v300 Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I have a 2015 Forester XT with the keyless start. I am encountering the slow start up with the gt86 brethren w/ the keyless start with my AVIC 8100NEX. I was wondering if putting a bigger battery would help. I just noticed my car has a whimpy 330 CCA battery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Not sure if I'm honest. I know there have been some battery problems on the GT86 and that it's under spec'd. Not sure if the Forester is similarly afflicted. It might help - and if you try it, I'd be interested in the result. It could mask the problem rather than fix it...but if it works, does that matter?! I'll get a reading on the Acc line as soon as I get some kit to do it and see what's happening. A fix may be possible once we know what's happening or otherwise if we can tell Pioneer that it's not just one person having the problem, they may be more willing to investigate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
v300 Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Here's a test. Before you start your car; engage the "push start." Immediately, follow up by a standard push start procedure (foot on brake and push start). If the test works; the head unit should have immediately started. I was told that it may be more beneficial to use the 12v red wire from the ignition directly. Can someone validate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 If I push Start without the clutch down so that it turns the ignition comes on without cranking the engine the head unit comes on. I can then start the engine and it comes on again. I've just got hold of an oscilloscope so as soon as I get time to pull it all apart again, I'll get a trace of the voltage of both the permanent live and ignition live while I immediately start the engine. I'll compare it to the Option Connector which lurks just to the left of the radio bay (on a RHD GT86) to see if that would be any better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hi all. Just an update. I've checked it out with an oscilloscope and learned....absolutely nothing. Voltage drop like you'd expect when cranking but nothing odd or different that I can see between acc and start. I've just installed a DAB/FM antenna so made two changes which have had zero effect: run the antenna amp from ignition rather than power antenna lead in case it was drawing too much power. Taken both batt and acc power from the Option Connector instead of radio loom. Not a fix but thought it might be helpful to know what doesn't work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.