v300 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Thanks for the hard work and sharing Cenedd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 No problem. Just wish it were a solution I was posting! I can't help but think it's something like the head unit thinking the battery is flat and refusing to start until it's convinced the battery is healthy...buy Pioneer say it doesn't do that. I know you can get massive capacitors for when you have ludicrous speakers...is there anything more sensibly sized (and priced) that would smooth the voltage out on either the ACC line or battery live so the head unit doesn't see the voltage drop while the engine is cranking? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Was asking about suitable capacitors on a more general forum and they're of the opinion that my battery may be the issue. That would make some sense as although the engine starts fine, the voltage drop is significant. That ties in with what I've heard that the battery is spec'd only just high enough to work. I'm going to borrow the battery from my old car after I've charged it (charger in post) so will solve two problems. Will let you know if it works...unless anyone me beats me to trying it! Other forum thread for reference: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.php?t=370115 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted June 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Tried the battery from my old car and it doesn't fit. Terminals are reversed and the leads from the car not long enough to reach the other side Will be picking up an AGM battery from someone in the owner's club to try that but have to drive a long way so waiting to tie it in with visiting family. If anyone gets a chance to try another battery I'd love to know whether this is going to help before dropping £70 GBP on a battery that MIGHT fix the problem! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottinPollock Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I don't think this is a voltage issue, but instead a timing one. While I don't have 'push to start', I have seen this in my truck. Most cars disconnect accessory circuits while the starter is engaged. So the unit sees power when the ignition is on, power is removed while cranking, and restored after the starter is disengaged. I normally put in the key and turn the switch directly to the crank position. When I would do this, I would occasionally see the long delay in the unit booting up. But when I turn the switch to ON and leave it there for a second or two before moving it to the crank position, I have never seen it. My guess is that when the power ON-OFF-ON sequence is within a certain interval, the unit gets confused as whether to power up, and the delay occurs. I don't have an answer for those 'push to start' users as to how they can avoid this interval other than to do whatever it is you have to do to get the ignition on for a second or two before you engage the starter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted June 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks for that. It's really helpful to know that it's not just push-to-start that has this problem as Pioneer denied all knowledge of the problem when I spoke to them. Ignition live definitely goes off (0V) while the engine cranks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwking Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I can also confirm this same issue. NEX 4100 and 2015 Subaru Forester Touring. The trick of push-to-start without holding in break to start ACC works, but cold starting car sometimes takes the NEX unit a good minute to start up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I've spoken again to Pioneer UK support. They wanted me to send my unit off to an authorised service centre but given that some of you are experiencing the same issue, I'm fairly sure that if this unit gets put on a bench and 12V applied to both feeds, it'll work fine and be sent back (probably after weeks) with no fault found. They've agreed to have a discussion about it internally and see if there's anything that they can suggest. I've passed on the oscilloscope traces I took and a link to this thread to show others with the same issue. Will let you know what comes from it. Gareth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvondra Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 2015 Scion FR-S Release Series 1 with the same issue here. Manual, push button start etc. 8100 and OEM Audio + plug and play amp/dual sub. Had the 8000 prior to this and changed to 8100 for Android Auto. This startup issue is the only real issue I've had with this unit but the randomness is driving me batty as well. If anyone hears of a solution hit me up. I have lost but almost all faith in Pioneers tech support lines based on past experiences. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackforge Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I may have good news as mine may be fixed. Did a battery swap last night. This morning the car and the radio started right up. The car seemed to turn over much quicker and I think this may be what is causing the sensing delays of the radio. I've only started it twice today, but the overnight start is very good sign in my opinion. FYI: I used a Diehard Platinum Group 35 battery. This is a re-badged Odyssey battery for the internationals. Edit: 4 times now and the radio has started up immediately every time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thanks Blackforge. That's good to know. Probably working around the problem - more capacity is likely to mean the voltage doesn't drop as much - but if it works it's going to be an easier fix than getting Pioneer to admit this even happens by the sound of it. I'll get my plans for a replacement battery back on track and report back when I've got it tested. Got a particular battery in mind and have to tie in collecting it with a visit to family so it could be a while. Thanks for testing this and letting us know. Gareth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottinPollock Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Just a thought... If he did a battery swap, he disconnected all power to the unit, thus resetting it. Have any of you with this issue tried just temporarily disconnecting the battery? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cenedd Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I've unplugged and replugged mine many times where I've been adjusting brackets to get it to fit well. I've also disconnected the battery for a while when I tried to test the battery from my old car....and failed because the terminals were the other way round and the cables not long enough. On the plus side, I'd swear my mpg went up afterwards! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackforge Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Prior to the battery swap, I had disconnected my battery multiple times while tweaking/moving my amplifier and wiring. Also using the reset on the unit itself, etc to no effect. I can confirm it starts up every time now since I've put in the new battery. It is an almost 3 year (440CCA?) vs brand new (850CCA) battery though, heh. Though I had seen startup hesitations/long cranks intermittently in the past. As for better gas mileage, the ECU does get reset if you leave the battery disconnected long enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lacayoj Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have a 4100NEX and a Subaru WRX 2015 with the same issue. Im pretty sure it's not a timing thing, like someone suggested, but the battery swap that Blackforge did, seems to hit the nail in the head. I will buy a battery tomorrow and report back with my results. Thanks to all and to Blackforge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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