Anyone come up with what type of format the Z1 hard drive is so that we can back it up or even make alterations?

Thanx!

Hi Guys

Any news on this topic? woudl ove to be able to dump mp3's directlly onto HD :)

Anonymous said:

Hi Guys

Any news on this topic? woudl ove to be able to dump mp3's directlly onto HD :)

The way it is stock, no you can't dump MP3's to the hard drive (while it is installed in the car). There is a theory that we can remove the hard drives out of the head units, hook them up to a PC and transfer directly. But so far no one (including myself) has had the guts to yank the drive out of their unit and try it.

HA

thanks...thats what im waiting for.

C'mon, i know someone out there wants to take a tork screw driver to their $2200 uni9t and yank out the drive.... :)

:P

If someone booted into Knoppix (Downloadable Live Linux CD).
There would be no chance at harming the HDD, especially if the drive was mounted as read only.

Knoppix would also read the Z1's EXT2/3 format.
Assuming of course that that HDD is EXT2/3.
We know its not FAT or NTFS. So, linux's EXT is the only (major) one left.

JasonH said:

Knoppix would also read the Z1's EXT2/3 format.
Assuming of course that that HDD is EXT2/3.
We know its not FAT or NTFS. So, linux's EXT is the only (major) one left.

How do we know this? I read a review that the Z1 was using windows for mobiles 5. It might not be true, but it's what I read somewhere, and seeing how long it takes to boot up, I would believe it's a windows product.

I'm more worried about how to get it out, hit the eject button, open the front door, then do what? Just yank it? If you power off, I think it retracts. So you would have to compleately remove power. What would happen on boot up? I just don't have the guts to be the first one to try it.

I have heard from a guy that the Z1 is linux based and did not know how to read the format. His windows computer could not read the drive, meaning the drive is not windows formatted. I suggested Knoppix but never heard back.

Not sure how to get the drive out.

JasonH-Mobile said:

I have heard from a guy that the Z1 is linux based and did not know how to read the format. His windows computer could not read the drive, meaning the drive is not windows formatted. I suggested Knoppix but never heard back.

Not sure how to get the drive out.

Actually I just tested it and if you open the front and turn off the car, the door stays open and the power does seem to shut off. It's obviously not compleately off, but it might be safe to pull it out.

I pulled out the drive the other day to inspect what I would need to hook it to the PC. I went and picked up a 2.5" HDD to USB adapter. I will try it tonight and post my success or failure. My reasons are the same as most. Direct load of MP3 and backup the system.

All I did was lower the screen like I was going to insert a disc, turn off the power (and open the drivers door since I have a GM product that keeps the unit powered until then), remove the 2 screws (drop the cover on the touch screen and yell F**K :shock: ), and finally pull out the HDD using the plastic strap. Easy. I put it back in the opposite way (No F**K :D ) this time and it worked fine.

I'm definitely interested in what anyone finds on this. Keep us updated those that are testing!

Anonymous said:

I pulled out the drive the other day to inspect what I would need to hook it to the PC. I went and picked up a 2.5" HDD to USB adapter. I will try it tonight and post my success or failure.

That might work, but I think it would be better to use one of these adapters

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812203012

And connect the laptop drive directly to the ATA cable in the PC. I'm not sure. Let us know if the USB thing works.

Ok pulled the drive back out as promised (I'm the guy that said F**K). Connected it to a 2.5 to USB converter and tried both Windows XP and Knoppix 4.0.2 (I'm posting using Knoppix now and forgot how cool this OS is - truely rocks). Neither operating system could identify it. Both found and recognized the hardware but had no clue what OS was on them. Good old Windows wouldn't do much with it, at least knoppix tried to mount it.

To let others know this is a safe procedure I put the drive back in the AVIC already and it booted up like it never happened.

I'm game to try some tools and plan to dig up a 2.5 to ide converter (I used to have one and this was my first idea at the store but all they had were the USB stuff and if anybody knows what Fry's electronics is you know how clueless most of their people are with stuff like this) so I can try Ghost and see if I can pull an image or something. I'd like to get an image onto another 30gb mini drive and see if the AVIC likes it. Then I'd have no problem getting more midevil on the drive format....

I don't want to try a sector editor yet and other than viewing the first sector or two wouldn't know what I was looking for anyway. I've only used those to perform specific repairs when fixing DVR's.

Anonymous said:

Ok pulled the drive back out as promised (I'm the guy that said F**K). Connected it to a 2.5 to USB converter and tried both Windows XP and Knoppix 4.0.2 (I'm posting using Knoppix now and forgot how cool this OS is - truely rocks). Neither operating system could identify it. Both found and recognized the hardware but had no clue what OS was on them. Good old Windows wouldn't do much with it, at least knoppix tried to mount it.

To let others know this is a safe procedure I put the drive back in the AVIC already and it booted up like it never happened.

I'm game to try some tools and plan to dig up a 2.5 to ide converter (I used to have one and this was my first idea at the store but all they had were the USB stuff and if anybody knows what Fry's electronics is you know how clueless most of their people are with stuff like this) so I can try Ghost and see if I can pull an image or something. I'd like to get an image onto another 30gb mini drive and see if the AVIC likes it. Then I'd have no problem getting more midevil on the drive format....

I don't want to try a sector editor yet and other than viewing the first sector or two wouldn't know what I was looking for anyway. I've only used those to perform specific repairs when fixing DVR's.

This was me above, just registered as I think from what I'm already starting to do with this I might be here to often. heh.

Here is a pic of my install:

Format update:

Purchased ATA - IDE adapter as suggested and had the same results. Windows doesn't even display the drive in "disk administrator" and Linux trys to mount it and fails as unknown.

I also tried to use Norton Ghost from both Windows and the command line with no success. Same results as Windows. It just didn't see the drive as being installed at all. The drive shows up in Bios and within Windows in Device Manager.

I'm going to dig up an old laptop HDD and see what happens if I plug it in to the Z1.

Pulp_Fiction said:

I'm going to dig up an old laptop HDD and see what happens if I plug it in to the Z1.

The drive is standard, the format isn't. (I'm a network engineer).. .If you put a standard format drive in there, the OS of the headunit wont be able to read it and simply give you an error at start. We need to figure out the actual format and for that somone is going to have to read the drive sector by sector...(I'd do it but I just don't have the time with my job)

rlith said:

Pulp_Fiction said:

I'm going to dig up an old laptop HDD and see what happens if I plug it in to the Z1.

The drive is standard, the format isn't. (I'm a network engineer).. .If you put a standard format drive in there, the OS of the headunit wont be able to read it and simply give you an error at start. We need to figure out the actual format and for that somone is going to have to read the drive sector by sector...(I'd do it but I just don't have the time with my job)

I was thinking perhaps the z1 was standard enough where it might try to load an alternate operating system. Somebody posted that some info displayed on theirs during boot up that sounded like linux code. If true then the processor is likely to be x86 compatible. It's possible the drive is just protected in a way that is just preventing it from being mounted by an alternate operating system.
Others have speculated the OS as being Win CE. If that was true I was thinking of cloning a CE image from a thin client to a 2.5 HDD. The problem with that is which processor is the Z1 based on?

Dskprobe crashed while trying to read sector 0 or 1.

Has anyone tried the Maxtor Disk tools?

I'm geussing that this would at least allow you to identify the disk type?

Hmm, One last thought...

I didnt see that you already tried dskprobe....

That beign the case, sounds like teh drive is "password protected". What I mean by this is most laptops have options to put a password on your hard disk (not to be confused with a BIOS password).

When you boot up with a drive liek this, it would prompt you for a password. And if you dont put the correct password, the drive wont even show up in any tool.

For example, In my IBM thinkpad, I have 2 drives. the main which I boot from, and a 2nd drive in a secondary bay adapter. I keep all my data on this 2nd drive. When I boot with this drive in, it will promt me for a password right after the bios boot screen. if an incorect password is put in, the drive wotn even show up in an tool. Almost as if drive doesnt exist.

If i put in the correct password, drive functions as normal.

If I were to pop this drive in while windows were already boot up, the drive wouldnt recognize either. In order to use it, the drive MUST be present durign boot up.

I wonder if when teh Z1 boots up, its doing the same process...

rlith said:

Pulp_Fiction said:

I'm going to dig up an old laptop HDD and see what happens if I plug it in to the Z1.

The drive is standard, the format isn't. (I'm a network engineer).. .If you put a standard format drive in there, the OS of the headunit wont be able to read it and simply give you an error at start. We need to figure out the actual format and for that somone is going to have to read the drive sector by sector...(I'd do it but I just don't have the time with my job)

It just dawned on me that we were looking at this from 2 different angles. I was thinking the OS was loading from the HDD and you are assuming the OS is embedded and the HDD used for data. Correct?

I went ahead and stuck in a working HDD and the Z1 was able to turn on and play radio but only the open/close, volume and seek buttons worked. I did get the "starting pioneer nav" or whatever it says but never the splash screen that follows. Just eventually a "cannot use hard drive" in 3 different languages.

I will make a wild unsubstaniated guess and talk out of my ass for a second. Perhaps Pioneer is using the format from the Blu-ray DVD system they are about to release. This would be simple to port and currently a secure format. If not it could be something similar. Why keep inventing the wheel.....?

docluv01 said:

Hmm, One last thought...

I didnt see that you already tried dskprobe....

That beign the case, sounds like teh drive is "password protected". What I mean by this is most laptops have options to put a password on your hard disk (not to be confused with a BIOS password).

When you boot up with a drive liek this, it would prompt you for a password. And if you dont put the correct password, the drive wont even show up in any tool.

For example, In my IBM thinkpad, I have 2 drives. the main which I boot from, and a 2nd drive in a secondary bay adapter. I keep all my data on this 2nd drive. When I boot with this drive in, it will promt me for a password right after the bios boot screen. if an incorect password is put in, the drive wotn even show up in an tool. Almost as if drive doesnt exist.

If i put in the correct password, drive functions as normal.

If I were to pop this drive in while windows were already boot up, the drive wouldnt recognize either. In order to use it, the drive MUST be present durign boot up.

I wonder if when teh Z1 boots up, its doing the same process...

Possibly a good guess:
After putting the drive from my laptop into the Z1 and then replacing it in the laptop now get something I've never seen on this laptop on boot up:

Drivelock HDD Bay Password and a picture of a key. I get 2 guesses and then it reports: invalid password drive is locked.

Since I've never enabled drivelock I can only assume the Z1 activated the lock for me. :?

The only thing I didn't try was putting the Z1 drive in the laptop and I don't think I want to for some reason.

I'll see if this "locked" drive now acts the same way the Z1 drive did previously.

Ahhh,

I never thought of that, it's the same thing the original Xbox had to keep people from doing what we are doing to the Z1. I know there is a site that shows how to bypass it. I'm looking for it now.

Confirmed: "drivelocked" drive behaves the same as Z1 drive in all tests. I don't know if this is a valid test since a different format drive may also behave this way.

Anybody know how to break "drivelock" passwords?

Found it: http://www.rockbox.org/lock.html

EDIT: Err, I don't think thats it, nevermind. I'll keep looking, I know it's out there. Might want to try this: http://www.hdd-tools.com/products/rrs/

Wow....1st time my theory on a forum turned out to be correct one :) (Or at least putting us on the proper path)

I've been out of town a few days, cant wait to get home and pop out my hd from teh z1.

JasonH said:

Found it: http://www.rockbox.org/lock.html

EDIT: Err, I don't think thats it, nevermind. I'll keep looking, I know it's out there. Might want to try this: http://www.hdd-tools.com/products/rrs/

Thanks Jason,

I found the same hdd-tools and think this might do it since they say the drive in the Z1 is supported. However the drive from my laptop is not on their supported list so I cannot test this theory and without testing I'm not sure I want to let the Z1 drive get attacked yet... :shock:

I speculate my laptop drive was issued the unlock command by the Z1 and then the lock command when I shut it down to remove it. I have a couple of guesses on how to get into this.

for the following the "test" drive is the one from my laptop that was locked by the Z1.

Connect the "test" drive to an ide channel on a nearby PC
Boot up the PC so it sees the drives bios config.
leave the PC running and unplug the drive
Run an extention cable out of the Z1 HDD bay
Use an external power source to power up the HDD.
Plug in the "test" drive to the extention cable coming out of the Z1
Power up the Z1, bypass the safety switch
leave the Z1 on and unplug the drive from data only
reconnect the drive to the PC
The drive will hopefully be unlocked
Hopefully I can now retrieve or change the password - Still working on this part.
Opinion???

If none of this works I've also read about somebody "sniffing" the ide cable of drive locked drives and getting the password when they are unlocked. This may be beyond my abilities. I sniff networks, not hardware... :D