No freakin way I'm paying $250. That's 50% of what I paid for the whole unit

well, there is always the group buy way of doing it, a buncha people throw in part of the cost and get one copy and then we give eachother a copy of it from there (depending on how they distribute it that is)

at least we might have the option of sharing the map updates since

we have our maps saved to a hard drive

i work for a car dealership and the factory gps units have a second cd slot

just for the map cd and you need to have the map cd in the unit to have use of the maps

the cds cost us about $250 and the most current maps we can get are about 4 years old

just my 2 cents

I think the previous updates (for the D & N series) ran $120. The current one is on Pioneer's website (CDNV-80MT) is $120. But I got the Bittorrent discount for my D1! Burned it to a DL-DVD and popped it in and voila!

...OK... and Pioneer could easily stop all support for their F-series and release new hardware instead! They have *NO* obligation to keep releasing firmware updates for the current series, despite what you may believe. There is nothing - no where - in their literature or sales brochures that states that they will keep releasing updates to us - at no charge - for the current hardware...

My advice is to be thankful that you are getting free updates - since the initial release - that improves the product's performance. It amazes me still that people think that they are "owed" free updates to products at any given time. Rewind 10 years - do you remember a period when such a concept was even conceivable???

I could care less if they charge a fee for an improvement in features. I expect to have to pay for a map data-base update due to licensing fees. If the firmware/OS update comes with it, then double bonus.

What's the big deal? Since firmware 2.0 the F-series performs admirably. For the money ($500-$600) it's a mega-bargain. That's how I feel anyway..

What's the big deal? Since firmware 2.0 the F-series performs admirably. For the money ($500-$600) it's a mega-bargain. That's how I feel anyway..

Admirably? Really? No offense, but I call that settling... my D3 always did what it was supposed to do with no delayed response. Granted it did not have VR, but I never had to wait 7-8 minutes into driving before being able to use a 'feature' it came with. Also, that 'feature' is based on Microsoft's Sync... I wonder if folks that drive Fords have to wait that long once they crank their car to use it... I highly doubt it. I wonder if when they hang up their phones while using bluetooth if the whole system hangs and then you have to sometimes reboot the unit to get music back. I wonder if they have to unplug their iPod when the system simply decides it does not like it this go around. My F90BT lasted about 6 months before I just could not take it anymore... since I am being honest, the VR function was GREAT when it worked correctly, but that is not enough for me. I don't miss that unit at all and I've been left with a very sour taste in my mouth for Pioneer for releasing such a POS for us to beta test for them.

For those with the unit, I certainly root for all of you that they do release a 3.0 update. There are a lot of great people on this board that were a great help when I owned my unit; I think it is only fair that Pioneer fix the problems and continue to support this unit that people paid A LOT of money for... keep in mind, you could not always get them for $600.

That's how I feel...

I must have received an exceptional unit, because the only problem you state that I experience is the iPod. 20-40 seconds in the ride, I am at full function, no hangs with bluetooth, simply put, it is a great unit. I don't use the ipod much, but usually a couple of starts after doing a hack I have the disconnect problem, then after that it works fine. btw, I have a 90bt. There is no way I would spend $2K on an aftrermarket unit such as Kenwood. Even if I had these problems, a $1500 savings in comparison would be worth it.

i agree

i haven't had a single problem with my unit

i start my car and it is fully functional before i get to the stop sign at the end of the block

about 30 sec

and if i am listening to the radio it starts working with in 10 sec

the sd card does take up to a min or so but i can live with that

i dont use a ipod so i dont know about any probs with it

and i would rather pay 500 for my unit and be able to customize it with all the mods on this site

then pay 2000 for the kenwood the guy at the stereo shop tried talking me into

paying for maps is to be expected no matter whos gps you use

and if these units are as faulty as everyone says they are why should pioneer keep spending money to fix them when they could work on developing a new one

 

...OK... and Pioneer could easily stop all support for their F-series and release new hardware instead! They have *NO* obligation to keep releasing firmware updates for the current series, despite what you may believe. There is nothing - no where - in their literature or sales brochures that states that they will keep releasing updates to us - at no charge - for the current hardware...

True, but that would be contrary to what Pioneer has done since the inception of the AVIC line. The software that came on all new models in the N, D, and Z line were easily installed into the previous models. It would be the exception rather than the rule for Pioneer to just do a 180 now and not allow this. I feel very strongly that when the new F units come out their software will be very easy to install in the current line, like it has been all the way back to the N1. Of course there are no guarantees, but I would be shocked if the new software is incompatible with the current line.

It's amazing that my 3 year old D1 since I installed the 80 update (it came with 50 discs) and reclabrated the screen it runs much better than it did out of the box. Much faster boot up and menu response. I'm almost sad to see it go when my 90BT gets installed next week, but I really want those new features!

I'm almost sad to see it go when my 90BT gets installed next week, but I really want those new features!

Don't worry - you'll love your F90BT - probably the best head unit I have ever owned!

Admirably? Really? No offense, but I call that settling... my D3 always did what it was supposed to do with no delayed response. Granted it did not have VR, but I never had to wait 7-8 minutes into driving before being able to use a 'feature' it came with. Also, that 'feature' is based on Microsoft's Sync... I wonder if folks that drive Fords have to wait that long once they crank their car to use it... I highly doubt it. I wonder if when they hang up their phones while using bluetooth if the whole system hangs and then you have to sometimes reboot the unit to get music back. I wonder if they have to unplug their iPod when the system simply decides it does not like it this go around. My F90BT lasted about 6 months before I just could not take it anymore... since I am being honest, the VR function was GREAT when it worked correctly, but that is not enough for me. I don't miss that unit at all and I've been left with a very sour taste in my mouth for Pioneer for releasing such a POS for us to beta test for them.

 

For those with the unit, I certainly root for all of you that they do release a 3.0 update. There are a lot of great people on this board that were a great help when I owned my unit; I think it is only fair that Pioneer fix the problems and continue to support this unit that people paid A LOT of money for... keep in mind, you could not always get them for $600.

 

That's how I feel...

I agree with the two posters above - it sounds like you got a bum unit. I'm up and playing from my iPod in a little over 20 seconds, have ZERO problems with Bluetooth, and only had to do a hard reset once since September 2009 when my GPS lost signal with the sats.

7-8 minutes sounds like you either have a bum unit or screwed the firmware update up. Can you exchange your unit from the retailer you bought it from?

...OK... and Pioneer could easily stop all support for their F-series and release new hardware instead! They have *NO* obligation to keep releasing firmware updates for the current series, despite what you may believe. There is nothing - no where - in their literature or sales brochures that states that they will keep releasing updates to us - at no charge - for the current hardware...

 

My advice is to be thankful that you are getting free updates - since the initial release - that improves the product's performance. It amazes me still that people think that they are "owed" free updates to products at any given time. Rewind 10 years - do you remember a period when such a concept was even conceivable???

 

I could care less if they charge a fee for an improvement in features. I expect to have to pay for a map data-base update due to licensing fees. If the firmware/OS update comes with it, then double bonus.

 

What's the big deal? Since firmware 2.0 the F-series performs admirably. For the money ($500-$600) it's a mega-bargain. That's how I feel anyway..

True Pioneer can just stop providing updates and release a new F series. How would that go over with all their current customers owning the current F-series and knowing that they were left in the dark by Pioneer? Not to well. Every manufacture including Kenwood, Alpine, Eclipse etc provide support for their products, so it doesn't matter what happened 10-20 yrs back weather or not they offered updates, the fact is they didn't have the technology to do so and we the users didn't have a way to accept the update other than shipping back a product so your comparing apples to oranges. Like I state above all other manufactures provide product updates to keep their customers happy and returning. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay for an update, the issue at hand is that Pioneer released a product that was not ready for market, so they attempted to correct it by releasing update 2.0, however that has not fixed all the problems in the F series line. I am very happy that some of you haven't had any major issues but that doesn't mean you wont in the near future. If it does happen do you really want to pay for a fix that should have been part of the unit in the first place?

We are not talking about Map data update... everyone knows that we have to pay for the Map updates, that's two different things.

I have a 700 and a 90. If I buy the update, do you think I will be able to install it on both of them?

...OK... and Pioneer could easily stop all support for their F-series and release new hardware instead! They have *NO* obligation to keep releasing firmware updates for the current series, despite what you may believe. There is nothing - no where - in their literature or sales brochures that states that they will keep releasing updates to us - at no charge - for the current hardware...

 

My advice is to be thankful that you are getting free updates - since the initial release - that improves the product's performance. It amazes me still that people think that they are "owed" free updates to products at any given time. Rewind 10 years - do you remember a period when such a concept was even conceivable???

 

I could care less if they charge a fee for an improvement in features. I expect to have to pay for a map data-base update due to licensing fees. If the firmware/OS update comes with it, then double bonus.

 

What's the big deal? Since firmware 2.0 the F-series performs admirably. For the money ($500-$600) it's a mega-bargain. That's how I feel anyway..

True Pioneer can just stop providing updates and release a new F series. How would that go over with all their current customers owning the current F-series and knowing that they were left in the dark by Pioneer? Not to well. Every manufacture including Kenwood, Alpine, Eclipse etc provide support for their products, so it doesn't matter what happened 10-20 yrs back weather or not they offered updates, the fact is they didn't have the technology to do so and we the users didn't have a way to accept the update other than shipping back a product so your comparing apples to oranges. Like I state above all other manufactures provide product updates to keep their customers happy and returning. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay for an update, the issue at hand is that Pioneer released a product that was not ready for market, so they attempted to correct it by releasing update 2.0, however that has not fixed all the problems in the F series line. I am very happy that some of you haven't had any major issues but that doesn't mean you wont in the near future. If it does happen do you really want to pay for a fix that should have been part of the unit in the first place?

 

We are not talking about Map data update... everyone knows that we have to pay for the Map updates, that's two different things.

I think you're missing my point - the fact that the tech didn't exist 10-20 years ago isn't what I'm talking about. I'm eluding to the typical 'net attitude towards free software updates. In it's current form - that is the 2.0 Firmware - the F-series performs well. Start-up time for core features is acceptable, stability is fine, and it generally works as advertised. If you're having issues (like the ones that wonderdiva mentioned), you probably have defective hardware that should have been returned or exchanged under warranty. The vast majority of users do not experience these issues.

For people - and it would appear yourself included - to feel as though you are owed a free software update to further enhance performance - I just think that's preposterous. Where in any of the advertising or literature does it say that if you buy any of their F-series products that you will continue to get free updates?

It doesn't.

So why would you think that you are owed them? And no - I'm not talking about map updates... I'm talking about OS/feature updates? And every year there's a hardware re-fresh, usually with new or enhanced features. That's what keeps moving the products along. Am I supposed to complain that I'm being slighted just because I bought last year's models and didn't get the new hardware features for free?!!

Don't get me wrong - the F-series in Firmware 1.0 was practically a beta test and not worth the money. The update that came out shortly thereafter made it more bearable but still not quite what one would expect - I know I wasn't satisfied. So finally at the end of 2008 we get 2.0 and it feels like an actual release-worthy product. I'm pretty happy with it. So are most users.

Do we want more? YES! Should we expect it to be free? NO. Can we hope that it is free? YES!

I have a 700 and a 90. If I buy the update, do you think I will be able to install it on both of them?

I have no idea what their licensing restrictions will be for the update. Honestly, it hasn't even been proven that there will be a charge for any Firmware/OS updates, just the map update. Most of this is speculation (although according to what my friend told me - the guy mentioned in my OP that manages a high-end car audio shop - he expects there to be a charge).

Be patient; all should be revealed over the next 2 months or so. I think.

microsoft might not be a good example, Vista is very buggy for alot of people, and microsoft solution is......... Windows 7... wich you will have to buy (microsoft even said that vista was just a buffer in between XP in Win7)

Yes that maybe but you still get free updates on patches, bug fixes etc. and that is the point. They don't charge for patches... I don't know about you but I get them for free. Pioneer is not coming out with a new product (F-Series), they are simply fixing the current device that have been sold.

Where are you reading that pioneer is charging for 3.0?

Admirably? Really? No offense, but I call that settling... my D3 always did what it was supposed to do with no delayed response. Granted it did not have VR, but I never had to wait 7-8 minutes into driving before being able to use a 'feature' it came with. Also, that 'feature' is based on Microsoft's Sync... I wonder if folks that drive Fords have to wait that long once they crank their car to use it... I highly doubt it. I wonder if when they hang up their phones while using bluetooth if the whole system hangs and then you have to sometimes reboot the unit to get music back. I wonder if they have to unplug their iPod when the system simply decides it does not like it this go around. My F90BT lasted about 6 months before I just could not take it anymore... since I am being honest, the VR function was GREAT when it worked correctly, but that is not enough for me. I don't miss that unit at all and I've been left with a very sour taste in my mouth for Pioneer for releasing such a POS for us to beta test for them.

 

For those with the unit, I certainly root for all of you that they do release a 3.0 update. There are a lot of great people on this board that were a great help when I owned my unit; I think it is only fair that Pioneer fix the problems and continue to support this unit that people paid A LOT of money for... keep in mind, you could not always get them for $600.

 

That's how I feel...

 

I agree with the two posters above - it sounds like you got a bum unit. I'm up and playing from my iPod in a little over 20 seconds, have ZERO problems with Bluetooth, and only had to do a hard reset once since September 2009 when my GPS lost signal with the sats.

 

7-8 minutes sounds like you either have a bum unit or screwed the firmware update up. Can you exchange your unit from the retailer you bought it from?

Not a bum unit man... I am a tech geek through and through and know hardware failure from software mishaps... the unit was not bad, the software is buggy. You will find a LOT of people on this board with ALL of the issues I mentioned, it is not just me and if it is the unit then there are a lot of defective units out there. If your unit works as you say, then I honestly think that is awesome for you, but I have a hard time believing you can use the VR functions to ask it to call someone or ask it to play a song, etc before the unit has been running for at minimum 5 minutes. My unit had 2.0 when I received it so nothing was done to it from my end to make it run the way it did... all comes down to shitty programing. Also, keep in mind as someone else posted, your unit is pretty new. Things you may be willing to live with and accept right now may be an absolute headache in the months to come. If you can accept the units shortcomings, OR if you feel it doesn't have any, then continue enjoying your unit and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. However, I was not willing to live with it when I know how it should work. There are those of us who love it, and those of us who do not...

i agree

i haven't had a single problem with my unit

i start my car and it is fully functional before i get to the stop sign at the end of the block

about 30 sec

and if i am listening to the radio it starts working with in 10 sec

the sd card does take up to a min or so but i can live with that

i dont use a ipod so i dont know about any probs with it

 

and i would rather pay 500 for my unit and be able to customize it with all the mods on this site

then pay 2000 for the kenwood the guy at the stereo shop tried talking me into

 

paying for maps is to be expected no matter whos gps you use

 

and if these units are as faulty as everyone says they are why should pioneer keep spending money to fix them when they could work on developing a new one

With the D3 music started up almost as soon as the unit came on. Backup camera came up as soon as I put the car in reverse. Navigation function was up in about 15sec or less. This is how a navigation system is supposed to work.

On my F90BT my backup camera is useless unless the car has be started for awhile. Music starts about 20-30 sec after starting the vehicle. Navigation about 45 sec.

I'm not even going to talk about the other issues with this unit, but I'll just say the D3 is a much more polished system than the F90BT.

I'm selling my F90BT after my Kenwood DNX7120 arrives. At least it uses Garmin maps that you can update on your own using Garmin Mapsource software. You an even add other maps to the Kenwood. Like Topo maps if you like to go offroading.

Not a bum unit man... I am a tech geek through and through and know hardware failure from software mishaps... the unit was not bad, the software is buggy. You will find a LOT of people on this board with ALL of the issues I mentioned, it is not just me and if it is the unit then there are a lot of defective units out there. If your unit works as you say, then I honestly think that is awesome for you, but I have a hard time believing you can use the VR functions to ask it to call someone or ask it to play a song, etc before the unit has been running for at minimum 5 minutes. My unit had 2.0 when I received it so nothing was done to it from my end to make it run the way it did... all comes down to shitty programing. Also, keep in mind as someone else posted, your unit is pretty new. Things you may be willing to live with and accept right now may be an absolute headache in the months to come. If you can accept the units shortcomings, OR if you feel it doesn't have any, then continue enjoying your unit and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. However, I was not willing to live with it when I know how it should work. There are those of us who love it, and those of us who do not...

You know... admittedly... I hardly ever use the VR functions of my unit. I didn't even think about that - if that's the bane of most of your disappointment then I can totally understand. I know that if you don't have the address book in your phone formatted in the exact same way as the example here:

I'm sure you probably already knew that, but figured I'd post it for those reading this thread that are new to the club.

Personally I'm pretty satisfied with my F90BT, so it's hard for me to share in everyone's disappointment. I bought mine in August 2008 after the first OS update, and the later transition to 2.0 solidified my approval. If an OS update this summer 2009 improves performance even further (and maybe gets me some new features at the same time), then I'm pretty much on an evangelical mission with mine!

Cheers!

...Backup camera came up as soon as I put the car in reverse...On my F90BT my backup camera is useless unless the car has be started for awhile. ..I'm selling my F90BT after my Kenwood DNX7120 arrives. At least it uses Garmin maps that you can update on your own using Garmin Mapsource software. You an even add other maps to the Kenwood. Like Topo maps if you like to go offroading.

Could you define "started for awhile"? I am on the fence on buying a reverse image backup camera for my F90BT, and I've read a few users in these forums reporting that there cameras come on after a few seconds after starting their car. Which camera are you using with yours?

The Kenwood DNX7120 is a couple hundred dollars more than the F90BT, and that's without the Bluetooth add-on module and KCA-iP300 iPod cable. And there's no voice control. Is it really a fair comparison? That said I would totally prefer the Garmin navigation solution - that's very cool.

...Backup camera came up as soon as I put the car in reverse...On my F90BT my backup camera is useless unless the car has be started for awhile. ..I'm selling my F90BT after my Kenwood DNX7120 arrives. At least it uses Garmin maps that you can update on your own using Garmin Mapsource software. You an even add other maps to the Kenwood. Like Topo maps if you like to go offroading.

 

Could you define "started for awhile"? I am on the fence on buying a reverse image backup camera for my F90BT, and I've read a few users in these forums reporting that there cameras come on after a few seconds after starting their car. Which camera are you using with yours?

 

The Kenwood DNX7120 is a couple hundred dollars more than the F90BT, and that's without the Bluetooth add-on module and KCA-iP300 iPod cable. And there's no voice control. Is it really a fair comparison? That said I would totally prefer the Garmin navigation solution - that's very cool.

Started for awhile

Basically when I start up the truck, put my seatbelt on, put it in reverse, and start backing up my backup camera never comes up till just as I'm done backing up and starting to go forward. Totally useless if you're done backing up already. However, it is cool to guide you when backing up to a trailer.

I never used the bluetooth on the Avic F90BT because it sounded horrible. My factory Nissan bluetooth system was much better. I also never used the voice control, because it never really worked for me either. It didn't agree with my southern accent

Yes, the Kenwood is a few hundred more, but I think totally worth it over the F90BT. Keep in mind most of my experience has been with the D3 which had non of the issues of the F90BT. I can't stand the lack of track up in 2D mode. In 3D mode I can't zoom out far enough. The unit lags a lot. It takes awhile to register I took a turn (VSS is hooked up). It's harder to find a location. With the D3 you could at least fool the unit when searching for something. I had a remote control on the D3 which was awesome no remote option on F90BT. Static noise from speakers any time you push a button. Sound quality overall isn't as good as the D3. Oh, and a pathetic volume knob.

I do like the display and screen resolution, but that's it.

well i have never used the VR controls i dont have an ipod

and i used the phone book software in another thread to change the order of my contacts so the ones i call most

are at the top of the list makes it easy enough for me

and as for the back up camera

i always back in to parking spaces so i can pull out when i get in my truck

mostly because my truck is so big that it makes it easier to get in and out of places

so i havent noticed that the back up camera doesnt work right away

now i would love to have the toppo maps on my unit that would be very handy

EnochLight

Just turn the backup cam on without hooking up a camera. I'm guessing you don't HAVE to have a camera because it's just displaying a rca feed. Mine by no means takes this long. I start the car, put the seatbelt on and then throw it into reverse and bam, I get the backup cam blank display on my screen. SInce I don't have a cam I can't see anything, but I wouldn't think this would affect the speed of allowing an input to display on a screen.

Is it possible Pioneeer upgraded there hardware too...

I have the 700bt so that may be a difference too...

Just turn the backup cam on without hooking up a camera.

Good idea - you could just make sure the reverse wire is connected and then test it out to see if it's GOING TO work for you... Before you spend the $$ and all...

I think you're missing my point - the fact that the tech didn't exist 10-20 years ago isn't what I'm talking about. I'm eluding to the typical 'net attitude towards free software updates. In it's current form - that is the 2.0 Firmware - the F-series performs well. Start-up time for core features is acceptable, stability is fine, and it generally works as advertised. If you're having issues (like the ones that wonderdiva mentioned), you probably have defective hardware that should have been returned or exchanged under warranty. The vast majority of users do not experience these issues.

 

For people - and it would appear yourself included - to feel as though you are owed a free software update to further enhance performance - I just think that's preposterous. Where in any of the advertising or literature does it say that if you buy any of their F-series products that you will continue to get free updates?

 

It doesn't.

 

So why would you think that you are owed them? And no - I'm not talking about map updates... I'm talking about OS/feature updates? And every year there's a hardware re-fresh, usually with new or enhanced features. That's what keeps moving the products along. Am I supposed to complain that I'm being slighted just because I bought last year's models and didn't get the new hardware features for free?!!

 

Don't get me wrong - the F-series in Firmware 1.0 was practically a beta test and not worth the money. The update that came out shortly thereafter made it more bearable but still not quite what one would expect - I know I wasn't satisfied. So finally at the end of 2008 we get 2.0 and it feels like an actual release-worthy product. I'm pretty happy with it. So are most users.

 

Do we want more? YES! Should we expect it to be free? NO. Can we hope that it is free? YES!

If you believe that the F-series is perfect then fine Pioneer should charge for their updates. But Pioneer doesn't charge for firmware update and either does any of the other manufactures. Most manufacturing companies that includes Pioneer release 2-3 firmware updates for current or past product models then leave them as is and focuses on their new products. That is how you build core or even die-hard fan of a brand.

In your statement you said; "Start-up time for core features is acceptable, stability is fine, and it generally works as advertised." This doesn't sound like you are sure of the product when you use words like acceptable, fine or it generally works. My point is that do you really think it should be left as is? I don't think so. So why should we pay for update that fixes an issue that shouldn't been their in the first place.

To tell you the truth I love my F90, but it does not mean that it is flawless. Having said that you are not going to find another unit that comes with all the features my F90 has and def not for the money. But the devil is in the details and that where Pioneer dropped the ball. This unit could have been great, the best Nav HU but instead it's mediocre.