Really simple. Keep the Parking brake wire grounded all the time. Put a switch on the GPS Ant, How? Tools u need, sawder gun, sawder and splitters. use a switch on GPS Ant. Its a coaxl Ant(Power on the inside and Ground is the outside sheeld) Put switch on the power sheeld wire. its in the center of the wire. It works.When doing so, try not to break the out side sheeld of the wire(make sure the outside layer of the coaxl ant isnt disturbed).Try it When installing unit plug up GPS Ant to unit inorder for it the update location, then unplug Ant and drive. The Only Disadvantage about Bypass must Connect GPS Ant back when u need Navigation.Unit doesn't take long to figure out were your at. 3 seconds the most. IF THERE IS A DIFFRENT WAY OF BYPASSING UNIT PLEASE LET US KNOW........................... OUR WAY WORKS. MOE AND GREG GOT THIS ONE...

Pioneer must be getting more secretive about their bypasses. I wonder why?

I think they are changing them around just to show due diligence that they are trying to make them "legal" units and we are fighting to try to figure these out. Pioneer is walking a fine line of trying to make them not play dvds while driving and if it was impossible we wouldn't buy them. We want them unlocked... they want them locked but they can't deliver them to use easily unlockable. I would guess it's something like that.

Oh and here is the engineer in me coming out.

If you guys are going to try resistors, put a volt meter across the resistor when you do it. You obviously need to connect to the pin that has 5V on it. When you put a resistor across that and ground measure the voltage across the resistor. Anything meaningfully would be in the 2.5V range, I would assume.

There is a pull up resistor to bring that point to 5V. If you short it to ground, it would be 0V. But if you need a resistor then that means that the pin is looking for a "somewhere in the middle" voltage. The problem is we don't know what that pull up resistor is. If you stick a 1ohm or short to ground we know that doesn't work. If you stick a high resistance across it and it's too close to 5V then that won't be different enough to make a difference. When you get a resister so the voltage is 2.5V then you know how big the resistor is pulling that pin to 5V it's the same size. Technically that point could be looking for a small range of voltages between 2.3 and 2.7 or whatever.... it could be looking for 4.2 through 4.5V. I don't know what pioneer is doing. But if you measure the voltage across the resistor and it's close to 0v or 5v I would assume you are way off and try a different value.

Here's a thought to make it a lot easier to try things: Run wires out of the dash from each possible pin pulled up to 5 volts and also one from ground. Then hook them up to a decade box with a high impedance volt meter hooked across the wires and play with different resistance settings while someone else drives.

I wish I had access to a Z2 myself. Not knowing how to bypass it is bugging me to death. LOL

I have ben told to add resistors to the parking brake untill it reads 5 volts . which makes no sense to me. i would say hook the parking brake wire to the output wire that read 5 volts. doesnt that make more sense.

does the parking brake wire show 12volts when its not grounded? i do not have one here but can only asssume thats what it does. my customer did not come in yet.

Well just to be very clear about this.... There are 2 wires in your vehicle (and I'm sure you know this, but I just want to reiterate this for anyone else reading).

There is the vehicle's "Parking Brake" wire. And the Avic's "Parking Brake Sense" wire.

I don't know if these are the correct terms, but I picked them just to help distinguish.

The vehicle's parking brake sense wire is normally 12V until you apply the parking brake and ground that wire, then it sits at 0V.

I don't know what the parking brake sense wire from the Z1 (or the Z2) sits at normally. I would assume "high" which is parking brake off (either it's pulled high or needs to be connected to the vehicle's parking brake wire which is high).

The thing that confuses me is that from measuring the voltage on "wire #2" from the Z1 bypass... that bing 5V makes me thing the internal processor runs at 5V (very common). The parking brake sense wire will go from 0V to 12V (the car's low and high logic levels). But maybe the Z1/Z2 is internally dropping the voltage in there from 12V to 5V it's maximum high level. And by putting in 5V on that input you are giving the processor about 1/2 of the voltage it's normally looking for if they used a simple resistor divider. Or if they used a transistor to the processor's power, dropping the parking brake input to 5V wouldn't do anything differently then attaching it to 12V. I would use a transistor to do the level shifting (which I did in my circuit) than using a voltage dependent resistor divider which would need to be done to make 5V mean anything on the parking brake. They could have done this but I would be surprised if they did.

This all depends on what Pioneer did internally to the Z2 and how they did it.

My guess not having anything to test this with would be to measure the pins on connector 2. Which ever one is at 5V, put on resistors on that line so you see 2.5 volts. That voltage made me thing I was going right into the processor.

But what tech12volt was told seems interesting. I would assume that the input voltage is 12V on the AvicZ2's parking brake sense wire (I could be wrong). But if they think there is a resistor that would get it to 5V then it would have to be higher than that. You would be putting a resistor between the parking brake sense wire on the avic and ground. And I would start with a 10K and see what it measures. If the voltage is still too high then decrese the resistor, if it's too low, increase it.

If the normal voltage on the parking brake sense wire our of the Avic was 0V then it would assume the parking brake was on when nothing was connected. But something in my gut tells me this won't work. Just thinking of how I would take a 12V input into a 5V processor and do the level shifting.

Sounds like some good testing. Please come back and let us know what you find out.

someone with a z2 thats up in Jersey needs to go see DB, then all this speculation will be finished.

All I did was ground the parking brake wire and the dvd player worked fine while driving.

All I did was ground the parking brake wire and the dvd player worked fine while driving.

You've got to be talkin about the z1, others have tried this on the z2 and it hasnt worked.

it will work until 3d hybrid kicks in.

^^ What about if you disconnect the VSS wire then? That would disable the 3d hybrid right?

i tried disconnected the vss. it is not the vss that is the problem. it is detecting through the gps antenna ( at least thats what i have come up with so far). going to be doing another 1 soon so i have some more things to try. will let you know asap.

i tried disconnected the vss. it is not the vss that is the problem. it is detecting through the gps antenna ( at least thats what i have come up with so far). going to be doing another 1 soon so i have some more things to try. will let you know asap.

Disconnecting things that input motion are not the answer. Because the Z1 has internal gyros and can sense motion even with everything external unplugged. I would assume the Z2 is going to do the same thing.

The Z1 bypass is http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html#newbypass and I'll be willing to bet the Z2 is close. I would focus on the extra holes in connector 2 and measure voltages and work with a resistor for different voltages across the secret hole in connector 2. I would not worry about a resistor on the parking brake sense wire, I would focus on the connector 2 holes.

Just what I would do.

it cuts off after ur driving over 10 miles or faster..............

All I did was ground the parking brake wire and the dvd player worked fine while driving.

we measured them. we got a 4.88 volt in one empty pin. the brake wire was also the same voltages.

i tried disconnected the vss. it is not the vss that is the problem. it is detecting through the gps antenna ( at least thats what i have come up with so far). going to be doing another 1 soon so i have some more things to try. will let you know asap.

 

Disconnecting things that input motion are not the answer. Because the Z1 has internal gyros and can sense motion even with everything external unplugged. I would assume the Z2 is going to do the same thing.

 

The Z1 bypass is http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html#newbypass and I'll be willing to bet the Z2 is close. I would focus on the extra holes in connector 2 and measure voltages and work with a resistor for different voltages across the secret hole in connector 2. I would not worry about a resistor on the parking brake sense wire, I would focus on the connector 2 holes.

 

Just what I would do.

normally it wouldn't make a diffrence. we could try it...

^^ What about if you disconnect the VSS wire then? That would disable the 3d hybrid right?

we measured them. we got a 4.88 volt in one empty pin. the brake wire was also the same voltages.

Excellent.... Now the rumor was that possibly a resistor was needed for the full bypass.

the Z1 needed those pins which were pulled up to 5V normally... they needed to be pulled to ground (shorting them to ground). I don't know where it started, but the rumor was that shorting them to ground was not the answer for the Z2.

It's very possible the inputs into the processor are not binary 1 or 0 (high or low, 5V or 0V...etc), it's possible they are a2d measurements. I use stuff like this all the time. If they had an extra a2d pin on the processor, they can read any voltage and do something based on whatever voltage you feed into them. Now did pioneer do this? Don't know, someone needs to test this.

Take one of those pins, my gut says the "we got a 4.88 volt in one empty pin" one. Put a resistor between that and ground and measure around the resistor. Start big. 10K maybe down to 1K (ish). I would assume they would be looking for something in the middle. Generally an a2d (analog to digital converter) will turn this value into a decimal number value. They could program the chip to be: When the voltage makes the number 187 appear, do whatever. But they are not accurate in this environment. So they are going to go for a range. I'm assuming they picked a middle range.... or a round numbered resistor value. Like "stick a 1K in there" or something. So I would measure the voltage and aim for 2.5 volts. But the range, if there is one, could be anything.

This is just a hunch but I would assume the parking brake is still just grounded. At least this is what I would try first. And mess with resistances on the other pin. They already have a function of the parking brake sense wire with 0V to 12V. Makes me think if they did something funky they would have focused on the "extra pin in connector 2".

As far as I know... no one has taken these suggestions and tried them. If I had one I would, but I don't. Also the rumors might be totally off base. But it's easy to try and as far as I know, no one has even tried them.

901SoundsofMemphis, I don't mean to harp on you or try to make you mad... but right now you are the best person I know here who seems knowledgeable enough to test stuff and kind enough to post your progress here as well. Did you try any of this? Just listening to your solution, and thinking what would have needed to be done. Having a switch like that, at best, is a non-optimal solution or not even a solution at all. I would not have spent the time, personally. Knowing what you did and what that took, I would guess that trying what I was talking about (what I learned from rumor) would have taken less time and possibly produced a superior result.

People want a bypass. I can't test these personally cause I don't have one. I wasn't planning on buying one, but with all these things to try and no one wants to or seems able to try them... it's making me want to just buy one to mess with. But that will be at least a week till I get it and people who have the skills have them now. We just need to feed them things to try to find the correct solution.

Problem with 2 threads, make sure you read this:

http://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37687

Ok, this bypass thread is more interesting than the others. I have never experienced what you guys are talking about. In aviation most inputs I work with are either discreet on/off or some variable rvdt or lvdt. You are suggesting that this "discreet" may require a specific range instead of on/off? I can check with a friend at work about getting a decade box, I have used them before, but it's unlikely I will get one out of the gate to use at home. Maybe I will get some resisitors this week and give it a shot.

Ok, this bypass thread is more interesting than the others. I have never experienced what you guys are talking about. In aviation most inputs I work with are either discreet on/off or some variable rvdt or lvdt. You are suggesting that this "discreet" may require a specific range instead of on/off? I can check with a friend at work about getting a decade box, I have used them before, but it's unlikely I will get one out of the gate to use at home. Maybe I will get some resisitors this week and give it a shot.

Might I offer a simpler suggestion. Go to Radio Shack and purchase a Linear Taper Potentiometer, 1M-Ohm Catalog #: 271-211 or 100K-Ohm Catalog #: 271-092, and use that to determine if resistor is needed and find the correct value. Also, you might want to check the pins, if any, that are at 0V. Are they shorted to ground or are the near 0v. Pioneer might have went the other way and have an input looking for a “high†as compared to a “lowâ€. As I’m sure both of you know simply putting one end of the pot to ground and the other to 12V using the tap for the pin under test will allow you to either pull the pin “up†or “down using the same device. Even at 100K the current is 0.12ma way below the wattage rating of the pot. Sorry this is the only help I can offer, but I don’t have the resources for this one. I’m having enough trouble reverse engineering how to make the GM AM/FM diversity antenna, which I will post information for, work with my Z1.

Thank you both for your diligence and work

It'd be great if we could get ONE thread for this in just ONE forum instead of friggin 3. Two in one forum and one in anther.....

Anyway, in case you guys didnt see this one, this is pretty interesting.

http://www.avic411.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 4&start=15

Hack the HD, change a file, do the newest bypass (grounding the parking break right?) and then possibly have an answer? This sounds promising.

I know, I know... I'm a mod here and I have let them go how ever they have gone. I could merge them into one or move them into the hacks section, but I have been lazy and haven't done it. Sorry.

I know (or at least from what people have posted it seems) that if you want to take your new Z2 and overwrite it with all Z1 software and maps and all, then the bypass will work.

The hope is that we might be able to find the 1 or 2 files needed to change on the Z2 hard drive... most likely just copied from a Z1 which will re-enable the old school backup.

If someone wanted to be real adventurous and reverse engineer the CD installation method, you could create a CD which would update these files without unlocking the drive and hooking it to a pc which would make 1000's of people very happy. But this is a pipe dream, don't get your hopes up.

DB, if I werent friggin half a dozen states away, I'd let you experiment on my new z2.

Which gets installed tomorrow.

Has anyone seen a schematic/service manual? Might offer some clues.

If the map updates for the Z1 updates the Z1 to a Z2 and the bypass stops working (which I thought I had read on here that someone did that to their Z1 and the bypass became non-functional??), then perhaps those 4 empty pins on the right hand side of the connector are the output of a flash PROM (or something similar), which means that it's a matter of finding the right combination of digital word by grounding a combination of those 4 pins - if this continues to be a firmware/software defeat to accomplish the by-pass.

Since it seems there is no hardware change, the grounding of the parking brake should still be required - so that's a variable that would remain constant.

Worse case, the software/firmware in the upgrade flash from Z1 to Z2 was modified to not allow a by-pass, regardless. Which means I will never update my Z1 maps?!

I have something I want to verify.

I don't know if this works, I don't have a Z2 at my disposal at this moment to try it, but I'm asking people to see if they could test something for me.

I haven't tried this but I just got this message. It's from a friend of a friend of a friend, who is an insider at Pioneer. Long story but I have gotten some good stuff from him in the past. Anyway, I have been poking him for bypass information and he just sent me:

ground the empty pin in the RCA harness (connector 1) and the parking brake

I don't even know if there is an empty slot on connector 1. If so, then measure the voltage on that pin inside there when it's powered on, if it's 5V, sounds like it's worth a try.

How about we continue this discussion in the Hacks/Mods post:

http://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5420