jwq Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Maybe, I am really tempted to open both devices up & having a look inside to compare the boards and see if there is any actual difference as a lot of people assume, speculate & claim (without proof) that either hardware is actually different and that it is not software......... It's not speculation, it's simply looking at the service manuals..... Also, it's fairly simple for Pioneer to do, as you can see from the service manual that they just use the same microcontroller in both units for the FM tuning, but with a different embedded program. This makes it possible to use exactly the same PCB's etc.... The RDS/TMC controller is just left out... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markeyuk Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Hey jwq, You don't even have a F-Series device, do you? "However, I have a HD3BT-II (=European version of Z3) myself" What real page numbers on the service manual state any differences? the pages you have stated on another post do not tally ie page 117, page 187 doesn't even exist!!! TMC is only found in 4, yes only 4 different pages in the manual & have no references that any IC's are missing, or do Pioneer spell TMC differently? Have you actually opened one up? No, i didn't think so. All these negative nancys who try & claim they know all about the f-series & have no proof and speculating are not helping to unlock this device and seeing what else can be done with this, anyone who has customised their F-Series & shared (too many names to mention but you all know who you are) get mine & many other's thanks. Anyone else with genuine proof that these boards are different? carver, are you still around? Can you please explain how you changed the serial number to an RE version? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jwq Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 What real page numbers on the service manual state any differences? the pages you have stated on another post do not tally ie page 117, page 187 doesn't even exist!!! TMC is only found in 4, yes only 4 different pages in the manual & have no references that any IC's are missing, or do Pioneer spell TMC differently? ....? Numerous pages, actually, but if you f.i. look on page 24 (page number on the bottom of the actual manual page), you can see that there are 2 different versions of IC610, a microcontroller.....(PEG447A or PEG449) You can find many more references to differences in the manual, if you search for "contrast tables" (again, page 187 etc. exists, look at the page numbers on the bottom of the pages...) I don't need to open up a unit to see there are actually different versions... I develop microprocessor controled equipment for a living... I'm honestly not trying to be negative, just trying to save you time, however, if you have the spare time, have fun.... P.S. I think all the software mods people do over here are great, honestly very impressive, however, I just think that with the FM and TMC you're flogging a dead horse.... But I'll be happy to be proved wrong... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yettavr6 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Are there instructions for doing this update on a US unit? Has anyone else done it and feels the system is more responsive? So far i've only seen one person. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markeyuk Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have just disassembled my US version & have removed the AV Board & right at the top is a table printed showing various models, table goes as follows: EW | UC | J | CN | AU | RE - - | --- | - - | - - | - - | - - | CD | - - | - - | - - | - - | - - | - - |DVD| Funnily enough, as this is an F700bt US version, there is a resistor (or a bridge of some kind) soldered onto the UC/CD section, I wonder if i move this over to EW/CD, the unit will boot as a Euro F700bt? trouble is, this resistor is so f'ing small it's so hard to see what it is. I have checked this with a multimeter & it shows as having no resistance so this must be just a bridge to give an ID to some CPU call of some kind. To the left of this table, there is another table showing: | UC | CWN | |Hi out| 3648 | | - - | DVD | This must denote the F90bt which has the built-in pre-amp. I don't have that much time & probably you're right about the TMC/RDS but if this at least gives me the correct FM/AM Spacing, then at least it's something & all is not lost. BTW page 24 just gives me a block diagram, connection layout Now, if I only had an f90bt or an f900bt board pics, then I could make comparisons & see what's missing or different....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jwq Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 OK, I think I see what the problem is re. the numbers... I looked at the F900 service manual... You can find that here: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=e3525a08f2651d122fb2ca15d7ea42d9e04e75f6e8ebb871 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carver Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I have just disassembled my US version & have removed the AV Board & right at the top is a table printed showing various models, table goes as follows: EW | UC | J | CN | AU | RE - - | --- | - - | - - | - - | - - | CD | - - | - - | - - | - - | - - | - - |DVD| 1) Thank you for the work. this is precisely AV board? I totally forgot about the settings on the NAVI motherboard, I clone aviÑ software, from UC to RE, but forgot about the resistors. but my resistors at NAVI motherboard, not sure that they will help, although the taste is. and no this at my board To the left of this table, there is another table showing: | UC | CWN | |Hi out| 3648 | | - - | DVD | photo below. Read[/color] in DiskRW tools, but before you press Write in DiskRW tools, think about next shipping Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carver Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I have just disassembled my US version & have removed the AV Board & right at the top is a table printed showing various models, table goes as follows: EW | UC | J | CN | AU | RE - - | --- | - - | - - | - - | - - | CD | - - | - - | - - | - - | - - | - - |DVD| I remembered why not change these resistors, I have decided that the DVD region for lock DVD discs. perhaps I was wrong, but I not solder it. sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Easty Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I have tried changing the position of those resistors on my Av board it had no effect! If you look at the schematic in the service manual it shows those resisters as 0 ohms and they are simply connected from earth to earth. I think the purpose of them is purely an indicator to show that the particular AV or Navi board is set up for that particular region in software. in the case of the AV board it contains a micro processor (IC610) which has have it's own software load which will be hard to copy/modify. The micro processor is part numbered PEG447A for US and PEG449A for AU (in the service manual) however these part numbers are only pioneer numbers given to those items the real part number is actually some thing like this M30876fjbgp I believe the only reason they have different part numbers is because they are loaded with different software. A data sheet for this processor can be found here; http://documentation.renesas.com/eng/pr ... 2c87ds.pdf Carver, Has reloading your Avic fixed the FM tuning steps? Or does it just display Ew frequency stepping? And has it changed your DVD region? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Easty Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Carver, What program did you use to open and edit the image files? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carver Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Carver, Has reloading your Avic fixed the FM tuning steps? Or does it just display Ew frequency stepping? And has it changed your DVD region? when i load SDMLC dump from RE version to UC avic - it only cnange display 0.05, and i listen not real channel. and avic can't make initialization, and after few time, avic reboot/ i see avic software, EZRIDER connain some string, tuner_step_up, tuner_step_down, tuner_search_up, tuner_search_down. but RE use differend hardware board, so i looking for EW dump at . i don't touch resistor at navi board. for edit SDMLC dump i use winhex or other software, but for few block need calculate checksumm, and i can't find algoritm. it not crc32 or other, famous for me. thanks for CPU manual, i try read it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Easty Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Ok i'll try and get a dump from an AU Avic i have a friend that works in a pioneer retail outlet hopefully he'll let me make an image from there display model! I too have a US Avic so i'll give it a try on mine when i get it and let you know how it goes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carver Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 The micro processor is part numbered PEG447A for US and PEG449A for AU (in the service manual) however these part numbers are only pioneer numbers given to those items the real part number is actually some thing like this M30876fjbgp I believe the only reason they have different part numbers is because they are loaded with different software. thanks for CPU info. i download M32C manual, and compare pins, many pins like VCC/VSS/HOLD has the some pin number with PEG447A. also in download Flash Development Toolkit from Renesas, and found PEG447A serial programming pinouts at AV CN601 connector. all m32c/PEG447A can flashed via COM/RS-232 port, but Pioneer can set password for read. not FFFFFFFF, so, need connect and test. at this moment, i looking for other board at m32c, for testing, if don't found, i try connect to avic. also, i try read service manual more detailed, can WinCE flash AV board ? in this case, need try looking AV code in avic sottware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markeyuk Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Well, Soldering & moving those resistors didn't work, pity about that but did notice a slight difference when flashing firmware to EW version 2.00100 as in booting a little quicker & response times a little better too. But still no luck with anything else. Those processors are probably exactly the same, as they're not even made by Pioneer & it's been done to put people off buying loads of cheaper UC versions & converting them to EW versions & making loads of money from the difference. I have first hand with this, I work with some HP printers that have network ports built in but are disabled by model ID on firmware to stop it from functioning or even changing to a different model completely. yes, my navi board on the UC model doesn't have the MSN direct chip & a couple of others right beside them & probably doesn't have the TMC chip either (didn't know exactly where to look under those covers) Carver, if you can send me this testmode & diskrw tools, i'll send u back my SDMLC dump from both my f700bt UC & EU models so you can compare difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Easty Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 all m32c/PEG447A can flashed via COM/RS-232 port, but Pioneer can set password for read. not FFFFFFFF, so, need connect and test. at this moment, i looking for other board at m32c, for testing, if don't found, i try connect to avic. also, i try read service manual more detailed, can WinCE flash AV board ? in this case, need try looking AV code in avic sottware. Carver yeah figured they would have the id code set! i didn't realy have equiment to try. i wonder if there is a pioneer utility built in that can reflash it like Uboot? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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