It never has been based on CE. Its Windows Automotive. If your unit is locking up on you that indicates a possible defective unit. You might want to get that checked out.

Yes.. I was speaking of the F series, which was CE...

The Z's are Windows Automotive....

Neither my previous Z or my current Z110 have ever "hard locked"....

Thanks for the info fellas... I figured the hard locking was something I had to put up with because it was based off of windows so I kind of rolled with it. I'll be contacting my dealer now....

I have to say though, even with the problems I've had with the unit, I still love it (when it works). I'm even more jazzed after watching the X920 video. I'm gonna put those accelerometers and gryoscopes to use in the not so eco mode way.

 

It would be cool if someone could find the 120 service manual.... that should spell out enough to determine if the HW has changed...

I already found the manual....thats what started this thread.

Unless im mistaken and service manual is different from user manual.

 

It would be cool if someone could find the 120 service manual.... that should spell out enough to determine if the HW has changed...

 

I already found the manual....thats what started this thread.

 

Unless im mistaken and service manual is different from user manual.

Yes the Service Manual is very different for the User manual. the User manual tells the user how the device operates and how to use it, where as the service manual tells the technician how to disassemble, adjust, repair, or otherwise service the unit.

 

Good to know but I do not want to have to pay extra for it, I hope there is a process that will allow us to update from the 110 to the 120 without having to pay Pioneer or anyone else a fee. Only then would I buy a 110 and upgrade it. If I have to pay to upgrade a 110 to a 120 then ill just buy a 120.

 

 

You will pay a lot less by getting the 110 then getting the upgrade. And you will have to pay for it.

 

There is also this to consider.... You got up until March 31'st to decide...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/ ... ion+Rebate

Here is the thing with the rebate, you HAVE to buy from the list of approved Pioneer dealers:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/ ... et+Dealers

Vendor Price

6th Ave. $1,200.00

Al and Ed's $1,199.99

Best Buy $1,599.00

carconcepts.com N/L

Car Toys $1,399.99

Crutchfield $1,199.99

electrical warehouse $1,399.99

Electronic Express $1,599.99

Precision N/L

Pioneer $1,400.00

The specialists $1,399.99

Walmart $1,597.00 - Cant believe Walmart is this high!

xmradio.com N/L

Taking the lowest price here and applying the rebate still leaves you with a price tag of about $999.99

Then you have to pay for the upgrade at what price?

What is the cost of a unit from a non authorized reputable company?

If i can buy it from a reputable dealer for less than 999.99, then ill take that route rather then waiting on a rebate to come in and be out of pocket.

Amazon.com sells this unit for $925.10 with free shipping and has a the A-Z guarantee which includes satisfaction. Something to think about when making this purchase.

About half of those places's prices are M.A.P. prices which they cant show any lower then that on their web sites but they are sold all day long for several hundred dollars less then that. People on here have recently bought from both Car Toys and 6th Ave for far less then what is on their sites. M.A.P. price on the 120BT will like be 1599.99 or higher and go for between 100-200 less then that at first launch if you can even get them. Also the Map Upgrades for Pioneer Nav units usually run about 120 dollars. Some places were selling the X series upgrades for the F series for 69.99. I t will likely be a very acceptable price to upgrade your one year old 110BT to the newly available 120BT.

The way I read it... is that you are restricted to those stores only with internet purchases....

Otherwise, you can still get that rebate when purchased through any Authorized Dealer....

Awesome, that is the information I was looking for.

I will just purchase one from Amazon since that is the lowest price I can find now and upgrade it later on.

I just wish I could figure out the development interface for windows mobile 5.5 for devices. I am sure lots of people would be interested in modifying their Z units.

I know that when development is done with a device it is typically connected to a computer so that program changes can be compiled and then downloaded to the device, but there is no information in the service manual on how to do this. It is times like this that I wish I worked for Pioneer.

I also would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those who have shared their information here on this site, it is that community spirit that keeps me coming back. I do not post a lot, because I usually need very little instruction, but the information posted here on this site is usually very complete.

One last thing of note:

IMPORTANT:

This mail-in Rebate is valid for Internet purchases only from an Authorized Pioneer Internet Dealer. For a complete list of Authorized Pioneer Internet Dealers, please view the Authorized Pioneer Internet Dealer list.

And that is what sucks about the rebate

So if you know about a Authorized Pioneer Internet Dealer that sells for less than say 1000, then i might be interested in buying from them directly. That way i could qualify for the 200 rebate and it would in the end cost me less then it would from Amazon or where ever I end up buying it from.

The only thing about buying from a non-authorized dealer is you dont get warranty. If authorized price is 999 (after rebate) and unauthorized amazon price is 925. I would rather go with 999.

My avic N1 was repaired probably twice during the 4 years I had it...both times were out of warranty though. But would be nice to have just in case.

I did find a good source for repairs.... some ebay store named Samedaycaraudiorepair i think his name is rick out of chesapeake maryland. I could get detail if anyone wants it. (not afficiliated...just repping for good service)

6thave.com sometimes has coupon codes you might be able to use if you want to stick with authorized dealers.

I know that when development is done with a device it is typically connected to a computer so that program changes can be compiled and then downloaded to the device, but there is no information in the service manual on how to do this.

There is info in the service manual on how to access the file system but it requires a boot application to access it. We have hoped to get our hands on this application but at this point it has been illusive.

No ability to search for POI along a route.

No split screen.

Still using "due to expire soon" MSN.

Sirius GUI still looks like poop.

Oh, but an "Eco" function that zero people will use. Great. I can see my environmental impact while trying to filter through 25 restaurants I passed 2 hours ago and the Sirius screen still looks like it was programmed on a 1982 Apple II.

VBLUE42, you said "I have requested that feature be added in a future update." about route POI searching. Are you in touch with someone at Pioneer? Because any of us could certainly send in a request to Pioneer and be ignored as usual.

POI search along a route has been an issue with the Z since 2005 and many people asked Pioneer to take that already-programmed-algorithm from the X and put it in a Z update and were just plain ignored. Same goes for the Sirius GUI, and many users have complained about lack of split screen for over a year.

A lot of us are about to give up on Pioneer if we don't get some decent feedback and action on this. I had my fingers on the JVC unit just last weekend, but I was waiting to see what the Z120 had. It looks bad from what I see in this manual. I've used Pioneer for the last 400,000 miles, but brand loyalty only stays that if the brand keeps up with providing quality and listening to users.

Oh, but an "Eco" function that zero people will use. Great. I can see my environmental impact while trying to filter through 25 restaurants I passed 2 hours ago and the Sirius screen still looks like it was programmed on a 1982 Apple II.

Lmao! Good one!

Also, how was the JVC unit? I've been getting sick of knowing that $100 GPS units are more feature filled in a lot of ways...

The JVC unit was about $800, but it's MSRP is about the same as the Z110.

The JVC interface speed was very fast, and it definitely has the search along a route function. The map screen was also very nice, compared to the lousy screens of the Kenwood and Alpine. I cannot test bluetooth in the store.

I really like Pioneer, I just bought the wife a Z110, but the lack of features is maddening. If I don't get solid word that Pioneer is fixing this, I will not buy another for my car. I drive 50,000 miles a year, and MUST know what is coming along my route rather than the estimated amount of CO2 coming from my tailpipe.

Also, I forgot to mention:

The Z110 has no speed display, still.

It also seems not to let you see both miles to destination AND ETA! You have to pick one or the other!

Search by telephone number....gone.

My parents have a tiny nav they bought about 4-5 years ago for $200. Not only does it have more navigation features than Pioneer's flagship, you can actually program what info it displays on the screen, including the size and the color of the text! It has selectable voices, for crying out loud, including a girl with a British accent!

Also, another Jetta owner! Sweet! I recognize that dashboard.... I see it hours upon end.

Yep, 07 Jetta Wolfsburg. Love it! I'm driving about 20,000 a year myself and drive 100 miles a day round trip on top of a lot of side roadtrips around the country. I've had the Z110 now since October of 09 and like it a lot for the most part. As far as multimedia goes, it's NEVER dropped the iPod, not once (unlike my old D3 and F700BT), the VR for the iPod works well about 98% of the time, and everything is all roses until I go to navigate. The "learning" function never seems to learn that I don't take two unnecessary highways to get on the Garden State Parkway that has an entrance that is a straight shot of 3 miles from my house; instead the Z insists on adding 15 unnecessary minutes.

The lack of POI on route is the worst. Also, when looking up POI the unit sorts them by name first instead of distance, requiring 3 presses to sort them by distance, and even then, there's no indication of direction of the POI, nor is there info listed with it, you have to go back and forth in the info screen to see the address of each POI; the F/X series displays the address of each POI with the list page. The navigation software seems like it was written about 10 years ago. The maps look like Windows 98 with 256 colors. I wish that Pioneer would just run iGo on these units. iGo on the F series was actually not bad. Smooth animations, highway signboards that came up outside of junction view, POI on route, route creation and planning, SMART ZOOM, easy zooming in and out of the map, the list goes on. Also, uploading POI from Avic Feeds sucks. I spent a while compiling a list of all the Petro/Flying J rest stops along my trips to Nashville and put the SD card into the unit. I go to import the POI only to find out that I can't view any actual info about the POIs, they all have the same name with "Petro" or "Flying J" and there is no way to sort them by distance or anything. It just shows a giant list with the names. You press the name and it just brings it up on the map.

And one thing that really bugs me with the Z: the amount of confirmations that I have to press to go anywhere. I press the destination, ROUTE ME THERE! Don't bring up a map screen showing me the destination where I have to press OK or Scroll, then I have to hit OK, then press OK again when it makes all the routes, and then wait for it Calculate the route. PITA when I'm already driving.

Right now, I'm waiting for some reviews or hands on time with a new Kenwood DNX6160, which runs the newer generation Garmin software that the 9140 had, but hopefully without the bugs that the 9140 had. It has the higher res screen at 800x480 as opposed to the older KWs that had 480x234. The volume knob, less moving parts (no flip down) and more factory look are all a plus, too.

I agree. I wanted to take F90 out in the backyard and go Office Space on it til I got the Z110. That being said, its retarded that they took a step backwards on the navi software. No POI on route? Seriously? Do you have a single qualified programmer? And why do I have to look down at the screen like a million times to find 'OK' to do an address search? Its ridiculous! Then they have the nerve to 'advertise' on their dealer training site about the PAC product that adds infrared remote. Their own reps have agreed with me for years that they never should've taken off the remote eye. Now they are trying to pretend they are brilliant by allowing another company to make money off their own retarded product planners? Why didn't they just listen to what people wanted in the first place?

Wow, this is kind of weird. I in fact just yesterday, switched back to an X910BT from the Z. For exactly the same reasons. Here I thought I was the only one that secretly thought this way. Now, The Z is a great unit and I believe it has a certain future. This is the first time that I have had a nav system that I have actually had an opportunity to use to its fullest sense changing jobs back in September. I have to say, the Z has not failed me once. The problem remains however that, even though it has been good to me, I just couldn't feel as happy with it as I was when I had my F90BT. The fact that the F/X series is more feature rich in the navi category was something that has haunted me sense I left that series of units. It boggles me how they released the Z110 and the U310 with the same level of navi software. Only robing the U of most of its POI database so that it can be considered a basic nav as oppose to the Z. I too would love to see the iGo software run on the Z and that is about the only thing that keeps that unit from being perfect. I will certainly mis the 7", faster boot time, the general stability of the Z series and of course the VR. But I just could not ignore the fact that I could do more with the X series. Especially when you consider the community mod effort that is available. I think many will think I am crazy for this decision. It all boiled down to what I felt I needed to be happy with the unit. In the end the sacrifices I have made by going back to the X series are worth what I have gained. I too hope to see Pioneer "open their eyes" more to what their core users are asking for if they want us to spend our hard earned money on their product.

I'm making an educated guess, but I believe we are dealing with a company that has two or more entirely separate divisions making these products, and the team who is responsible for the "Z" series are stuck in their ways. In other words, it might as well be two or more entirely different companies making each series of NAV, and the company making the "Z" sucks.

LG is the same way. I own an LG VX1000 cell phone, or should I say crap phone. On my outer touchscreen is a button to unlock the touchscreen, which means the second it goes in my pocket, something rubs against it, unlocking the screen, and then my pocket dials BFE, Zimbabwe or another far off land.

LG has other phones that came out BEFORE my phone did, and those phones have touchscreens that have the unlock button where you have to slide it across the screen, like the i phone does..... meaning it never gets unlocked while in your pocket.

So basically, each LG phone and Pioneer NAV series is programmed by an entirely different team of people, and the teams that made my phone and Z are a bunch of retards. As a customer, how do you know which team made your device? They all just say LG or Pioneer.

(And please don't chastise me if you have a retarded child. No harm intended, and they shouldn't work for Pioneer or LG anyway...... sorry.)

Am I to understand the X series can do it all except have a separate video screen for DVD outputs? What is iGo?

It is common that companies like this have different design teams. Companies like this (Japanese) often don't share info. Kinda like the government before 09-11-2001. It is clear this is the case with Pioneer. Just look at the difference between the nav and DVD only units. It is also clear there will be no future units anything like the previous F series or the current X series. There were so many problems problems with the F series that I think Pioneer attempted to distance themselves as far away from that series as possible. That is why the X series was produced.

iGo is navi software by a company call Nv N Go that is used in the F/X series of units. iGo by itself, is a full featured navi app that is commonly used on portable/PDA devices. It has more in common with many popular portable navi units currently available on the market today. Kenwood has done the same thing with the Garmin software they license as early as with the previous DNX series of units. The problems started when Pioneer licensed the software from Nav N Go and butchered it to make it their own and released it in the F series. They clearly did not debug the software before they released the first F series units because these units were practically unusable. Within weeks of the F series release, Pioneer stopped shipment of the units in an attempt to do damage control. About 45-60 days after initial release, Pioneer release the first of many updates in an attempt to fix the unit. Although this did offer some badly needed updates, it also offered the boot files to access the file system and opened up the ability to modify the software and make it truly what it should have been in the first place. The X series is an upgraded version of the iGo software used in the F series and is also able to be modified. Even the unmodified version of the navi software in the F/X series of units offer some features more in common with popular portable navi units then what is available in the currently available Z110BT and future X and Z series. Because of the reasons stated above, It is safe to say you will never see this software on any Pioneer units in the future. That is clear in the impending release of the X920BT and future Z120BT as these units uses the same navi software as the Z110BT. This software has more in common with the previous Z, D, & N series of units making it clear Pioneer is now returning to their previous in-house navi software.

Am I to understand that people have programmed their own updates for the 910 available to us on the internet?

AND the x series has a totally different navigation engine? I did not know that.

So in other words, find a used x910 as the new x920 uses the same crappy nav as the Z? Glad you told me that, or I might have purchased the 920.

I think this puts the nail in the coffin on Pioneer if I want a new unit out of the box. It looks as if they will never update the Z nav software.

MikeinNJ Kudos on that "learning" function. After literally 100 trips through West Virginia, the unit has yet to learn I take the Route 19 shortcut between I79 and I77. It also randomly picks between two highway exits for my house, even though I've taken the same one 1,000 times. There is no learning function.

Does anyone at Pioneer USA read this forum?

Am I to understand that people have programmed their own updates for the 910 available to us on the internet?

On this very forum. This is where it all happened and continues to happen. Just look over the hacks and mods sections of the F and X series forums.

So VBlue, I almost did the same thing as you by switching back about a month ago. I bought a refurbed F700 off ebay, updated the software to 3.0 with the new maps and all my olds mods from when I had the F700 before I went to the Z110. However, the iPod would drop upon bootup about 15% of the time, the unit would reboot sometimes when placing a bluetooth call (Possible due to the No Nag warning mod I had or the fact that I had the X series 3.0 running with the F series bluetooth software, not sure which it may have been). Is the hardware of the X series much improved as far as iPod connectivity and BT? I'm aware that it has the new Apple chip in it for charging iPhones, etc.

Thanks for any input! I still love how fast the thing boots but I hate the navi more everytime I use it. I still don't understand how my F700 was more accurate on the map using only the antenna when the Z has the speed sense hooked up, gyroscopes, AND the antenna...

It was always suspected on this forum when the X series was released that the hardware did not change at all from the F to the X series and I don't see that it is any different from the F90BT I had a year ago. Of course this is only speculation. I had the iPod drop once yesterday and the BT is a little flaky in that sometimes the call indicator is slow to display on the screen when making or receiving a call. The name also will not always display when receiving or making a call which is an old problem clearly not addressed properly from the F series.

I know that you're also very active on the KW forums and had a 9140. Did they ever fix the street name issues and what not with them? Did the 7140 (Non voice interface) have the same issues?

I'm looking into the DNX6160 which appears to have the same Garmin version as the 7140 and the same multimedia interface as the 7140. I used to have the 8120 Excelon with the old Garmin software on it and loved it but HATED the ugly low res multimedia interface. They seem to have upped the screen res/fonts/etc. Also, did the 9140 have lane assist? I don't care about Junction view, just lanes. Thanks! I wish there was someway we could rent these damn things to test them out in real world scenarios and not just play with them on a wall at BestBuy.