Disappointing phone call to Pioneer

[hasher13]

If you read my other post "Well... It finally happened" you would know that my AVIC Z-1 was stolen. I wrote an email to pioneer stating what happened and how dissapointed I am in the product and the lack of security. I got a response, to call Pioneer complaint line and disccuss the problem over the phone, so I did. I learned so much. The most important thing that I learned is that they have no tracking mechanisms for the registered products. Meaning there is no way to track the unit via serial number or registration. It is only for updats and future information. So, in my case if someone obtained my unit and registered it with pioneer using the same serial numbers, there will be no flag to pioneer stating that this product is already registered and possible stolen or different owner. The new person would receive updates with no problem. That is really dissapointing.

The other thing is that, at this time there is no security upgrade or one in progress for the unit????

The only encouraging thing that came from this phone call is that my email and complaint will be submitted to a superior as well as the navigation engineers. I also left my number and email address and maybe, just maybe I wll get contacted in the future by one of these. Time will only tell.

Okay, just an F.Y.I!

[jay0heavenly]

Sorry man, now that I have my z1 I'm always nervous about where I park it. Any tips on what you would have done differently to avoid getting it stolen, or was it just a fluke?

[Cosmic Gecko]

I share your disappointment, but am relieved that your unit was at least reimbursed by insurance.

For security, I've got a few layers of alarms/intrusion-detector systems (with battery backups), and as a final kicker (in case they just do a smash-n-grab) I keep a set of torx drivers in the glove box and remove the hard-drive at night, or whenever I park in a shady area. (I keep an anti-static baggie around just so I can take the drive with me..)

The way I see it, the unit is worthless to a thief if it can't do DVD playback or GPS navigation. So, at least if it gets stolen, the thief can't benefit from my loss.

[rapayn1]

Cosmic Gecko,

Are you serioius? :) While I'm all for having a car alarm. I'd have one of those whether I had a Z1 or not. However, carrying around torx screwdrivers and unistalling the hard drive everytime you park at night and/or park in a "shady" area? Good grief!!! All that removing and putting back in of the hard drive can't be all that good on your unit either. I can't believe that you would feel better that your AVIC-Z1 was still gone (stolen if you will) but hey, you still have the hard disk drive and therefore the crook/thief can't use the AVIC-Z1 head unit either. So, you both have an item that still needs something else. You still need a second AVIC-Z1 and the thief still needs a hard drive. The thief has a better chance of taking a set of torx screwdrivers around and removing the next victim's hard drive and since it is not hardcoded to serial number on the head unit, installing that in his otherwise perfectly fine AVIC-Z1 unit. Save yourself the hassle man, and just accept the fact that your AVIC-Z1 has been stolen. Have an additional rider insurance policy on your main auto insurance policy. Carrying around an anti-static bag to place your drive in while you run into the store or to dinner at a restaraunt? Oh my!!! :D

[03Aviator]

It would be nice if they had a way of flagging the serial number. No thief would ever try to register the unit, but they might try to buy parts for it and requiring the serial number could get them caught...

[thrang]

[quote name="hasher13"]If you read my other post "Well... It finally happened" you would know that my AVIC Z-1 was stolen. I wrote an email to pioneer stating what happened and how dissapointed I am in the product and the lack of security. I got a response, to call Pioneer complaint line and disccuss the problem over the phone, so I did. I learned so much. The most important thing that I learned is that they have no tracking mechanisms for the registered products. Meaning there is no way to track the unit via serial number or registration. It is only for updats and future information. So, in my case if someone obtained my unit and registered it with pioneer using the same serial numbers, there will be no flag to pioneer stating that this product is already registered and possible stolen or different owner. The new person would receive updates with no problem. That is really dissapointing.

The other thing is that, at this time there is no security upgrade or one in progress for the unit????

The only encouraging thing that came from this phone call is that my email and complaint will be submitted to a superior as well as the navigation engineers. I also left my number and email address and maybe, just maybe I wll get contacted in the future by one of these. Time will only tell.

Okay, just an F.Y.I![/quote]

The simple addition of an optional security code would help. i'm also thinking of replacing the standard hex bolts with something something more secure:

[url=http://www.hudsonfasteners.com/security.htm?gclid=CJjR-ozAy4cCFSVLGgodKQwcHw]http://www.hudsonfasteners.com/security ... GgodKQwcHw[/url]

[Cosmic Gecko]

rapayn1,

Yep, I'm absolutely serious about it. 'Just takes a minute to pop the drive out and replace the cover, and I'm not too concerned about the wear n' tear. I'm very comfortable with the thought of cracking the Z1 open and reworking the board to replace a worn header if necessary. (I've got the tools to do this kind of SMD rework, thank goodness. :D ) Chances are, the Z1 will be severely outdated before I'd need to do any major repairs beyond that.

For me, the Z1 is a cute toy that's valuable to me only as a device worth hacking. (Sorry, I'm a hacker more than I am a mobile A/V enthusiast. I just wanna see what kind of tools I can write for the Z1's Windows CE that I can store on its hard drive.. :wink: ) If it gets stolen, meh, let's see if the thief can figure out how to replace the drive. As most of us have noticed, the Z1s will only accept a specific hard-drive model, which costs about $100 or so. So, even if the thief could get his hands on a cloned Hard Drive image, he'd still need to obtain a replacement hard drive that the Z1 will accept.

Furthermore, (and maybe Ducatiboy can test this since he has multiple units), it's not clear if an ATA-Locked HD that comes out of one unit can be unlocked by another unit. My guess is that the firmware in the Z1s use their Serial Numbers as a crypto-hash to generate the ATA Password. Otherwise, Pulp Fiction probably wouldn't have experienced his hard-drive being "relocked" with a new ATA Password. :)

I only take the drive out if I know I'm going to be away for extended periods of time. I'm not too concerned about a smash-n-grab attempt if I'm shopping at the local grocery store, whereas I am definitely taking the HD out if I have to park in any parking structure.

[hasher13]

Making the device harder to remove does help, but is not the true resolution. If the thief is able to get into the car and relizes that there are different torx screws in, I dont believe they will throw their hands up and leave. Since they got that far and already risked so much, they will do what ever they can to get the unit out, meaning destroying as much around it as possible. The best and I believe the true resolution is for it to be known from Pioneer that if removed becomes dead. This is will be the biggest deterent for theives. But as I wrote above, I will not hold my breath for that time. So until then, I will be adding a beefier car alarm, one with a two-way transmitter, possibly different torx screw, maybe infra-red cctv inside the vehicle and tear gas on remote control. Hopefully that will keep the bastards away.

P.S. Gecko, since you are trying to create code for the s/w is it possible to add a 4 digit entry code at start up like windows CE 3.0 and PPC Windows 2000? I have an old Jornado 565 that I use daily, and that has a 4 digit entry code for security.

[GnatGoSplat]

I think a car alarm with a prominent blinking LED is the best defense against thieves. It works against all but the most determined thieves.

I see no point in disabling the unit, even some kind of "theft lock" feature would be useless. I doubt most thieves steal stereos for personal use. I doubt they even try to use them. Most likely, they're going to steal it and try to pawn it at a pawn shop or swap it for drugs. Even if a thief did want it for personal use, think he's going to return it if it doesn't work? He's more likely to chuck it in a river or use it for target practice. To disable it is just making more trouble for yourself, IMO, and it's nothing to a thief. Just one of several dozen stolen radios that they get in an average day. My sister even had 2 stereos stolen in Denver despite the removable face having been removed!

[macalanche]

People are just A!! holes and are going to take what they want. All the alarms in the world aren’t going to prevent someone that really wants your head unit from getting it. Just be smart, park in well lit areas when possible, have an alarm, get good insurance and make sure you have receipts for everything. I’ve got an alarm and I have a computer in my truck with a web cam that will transmit vids with sound if it is near a wifi hotspot (home and work) or just record to the hard drive if it’s not. I don’t count on any of that though; they can just take it all.

[hasher13]

Maca, That is my next serious step. I have looked into PPC with CCTV and even infra-red CCTV. I am going to free up a PPC soon, and would like to use that. Can you give me an idea of how you set up your computer for this task. It won't be my main security feature but it may be easier to know when it is happened rather than it already happened. Some of the software and hardware can broadcast live images to a PPC, I can only imagine it will need a server, and an ISP within the truck or wi-fi! I would rather hook up an ISP and not hope to park in a Wi-Fi since they are not that common where I live. Can you give me a direction on how to get started. Thanks!!

[Cosmic Gecko]

'Hope you're running a separate power supply lead for that computer -- preferably your own installed wire that doesn't rely on the Accessory Circuit (or any other in-dash circuit) to signal "when" to turn on.

Back when I was in Vegas, someone tried to steal my car, and used a hand-held stun gun on my head unit (one end to a knob post, the other to a wire that led to ground, I assume). That pretty much blew out the fuse, along with every device that lived on that circuit. This guy knew what he was doing.

I lucked out because an attentive cop spotted the thief driving my car with a smashed-up steering column, and pulled him over 5 miles from my house. (Whew, that was a close one!)

After talking about it on another forum, someone suggested the thief was trying to destroy or disable any anti-theft devices that live on (or are activated by) such circuits.

That's why I now have multiple, isolated layers of anti-theft systems for my car. Plus, I've moved far, far away from Las Vegas now. :wink:

[macalanche]

[quote name="hasher13"]Maca, That is my next serious step. I have looked into PPC with CCTV and even infra-red CCTV. I am going to free up a PPC soon, and would like to use that. Can you give me an idea of how you set up your computer for this task. It won't be my main security feature but it may be easier to know when it is happened rather than it already happened. Some of the software and hardware can broadcast live images to a PPC, I can only imagine it will need a server, and an ISP within the truck or wi-fi! I would rather hook up an ISP and not hope to park in a Wi-Fi since they are not that common where I live. Can you give me a direction on how to get started. Thanks!![/quote]
I sure can but I'll have to get back to you later with the name of the app, my truck is in for service and I forgot to remove my Mac :oops: but the jist of it is I have my Mac set up with a firewire webcam and the software ftp's an images every 30 minutes to my server where I can check in on it. The software also allows you to set up "hotspots" that are monitored by the app to detect motion. If it sees any motion it starts to record 10 sec. video files and ftp's and email them. This took some time to set up because it would often pick up people walking by my truck and suddenly my inbox has a half hour of useless vids. If I didn’t have access to decent WiFi around me I might consider connecting a cheap cell phone with as few minutes as possible and hide it under the dash somewhere to call in one or two images to my server when the app detected motion. I can’t stress this enough though, I don’t expect this to save me, I would expect the a-hole in my truck to find my computer before it finishes its first file transfer or at the very least snag the camera. I have a wardriving app installed that I need to work with a little but I think that will be my best defense soon. The idea is if my truck gets snagged it will continue to grab its 10 sec clips and when it finds a hotspot that’s unlocked it will ftp those files to me. I am also starting to work through using my back up cam as a web cam, though I’m not sure how to have it pull double duty. Now I’m starting to get into the “toy” aspect of it though.

When I get you the name of the app I’m using I’ll include a couple pics of my setup for you.

[macalanche]

[quote name="Cosmic Gecko"]'Hope you're running a separate power supply lead for that computer -- preferably your own installed wire that doesn't rely on the Accessory Circuit (or any other in-dash circuit) to signal "when" to turn on.

Back when I was in Vegas, someone tried to steal my car, and used a hand-held stun gun on my head unit (one end to a knob post, the other to a wire that led to ground, I assume). That pretty much blew out the fuse, along with every device that lived on that circuit. This guy knew what he was doing.

After talking about it on another forum, someone suggested the thief was trying to destroy or disable any anti-theft devices that live on (or are activated by) such circuits.
[/quote]
The computer and my Z1 share the same power source (my yellow top battery) but that's it as far as shared power. The Mac is on a DC - DC converter with constant power directly to the battery and it's accessory power comes from another source not found under the dash.

I've never heard of the stun gun trick, that's pretty slick. The only downside seems to be if he wanted to actually steal the car that might also blow an ignition fuse. Makes me want to put a fully charged capacitor hooked up to the back of my dash trim for the f-er that wants to get in there. Let my truck fight back a little, though I'm sure I'd end up getting sued by the dumb ass that broke in.

[hasher13]

Well, this is my goal! I want to free up my old HP Jorando 565 by getting a new PPC and phone combo. I would like to install a few wired or wireless cames in my truck in hidden spots and have the PPC stored in a well or so with constant power and retrieving images from the cameras. At this point I would settle with the images being captured to be stored on the PPC 2 gig compact flash card, but I would prefer using my old cell phone and create a data connection to the PPC to be able to upload to my in house server or to be able to view live video via my new PPC and phone combo!! Does anyone know how or if this is possible and have any suggestions on how to do it. If so please send my way!! Thanks alot!!