Remote start messing up avic

[smoothavic]

Question for anyone with a remote start. I have a remote start on my Toyota Tundra. When I hit the remote start, it basically clicks the ignition (ACC) on for about 4 seconds then turns the truck on. For some reason when this happens about every 4 or 5 times i use the remote start it hangs my AVIC F700BT to where the touch screen does not work. I either have to hit the reset button (clearing all my settings) or turn the truck of and back on.

 

Is there a boot wait option or a fix. Anyone else having this issue?

[1loudls]

if its a D.E.I. R/S (viper, hornet, sidewinder...) and has keyless entry , you could hook a relay up to the radios ACC circuit and use the "ground when armed" wire to keep the AVIC from turning on until you unlock the doors. i have a viper R/S that i use all the time and have never had a problem with the AVIC from using it, im sure that the problem is from the AVIC lossing power part way through a boot up. another option would to get some sort of capacitor or small 12v battery and a diod to keep the ACC wire powered for the second or two that the motor is cranking that way the boot cycle would not be interupted

[adarkol]

Everything that 1loudls says is accurate... I have a Viper Remotestart as well and I actually use it everytime I get into my car to get the AVIC booting up so I get in and the music is playing Your other option is that since this is an occasional thing you could also use a standard Bosch SPDT relay and a normally open momentary switch to interrupt the acc wire on the AVIC to force it to reboot without having to loose all of your settings

 

The relay will have 5 terminals on it they will be labeled as 30, 85, 86, 87, 87a

 

cut the ACC wire behind the radio don't cut it too short cause you will need both sides of the wire!

 

30 to the radio side of the ACC wire

87a and 86 to the vehicle side of the ACC wire

87 terminate... connect to nothing but insulate it

85 to one side of the normally open momentary switch

Chassis ground to the other side of the switch

 

Mount the switch in a descrete location

 

Whenever you hit the switch it will disconnect the power on the ACC wire and force the screen to shut off... as soon as you release the switch everything will go back to normal.

[ot1]

As I am understanding this: the ACC going hot for a few seconds then shuts off, and then although not specifically stated, then the Switched Ignition wire goes hot, along with the START wire. In this case, I would install a delay relay on the AVIC power wire. This relay will cost about $60 and will stop the AVIC from getting pulsed power during the remote start process. The ON delay being set long enough to compensate for the Remote Start cycle, maybe 10 seconds.

Using a capacitor to hold enough energy to keep the AVIC powered during the OFF pulses, would have to be large physically, we are talking in the 1+ farad region, and you have to size it properly, depending on the pulse width and interval of the ACC pulse. A battery at the AVIC won't work because it will hold the AVIC powered after the key is switched off...slowly discharging...and then suppling the AVIC with under voltage which could be harmful to the NAVI electronics.

[1loudls]

a small battery or capacitor would be powering the ACC wire or at least a relay controlling the ACC wire, the AVIC pulls all of the power it uses for operation from the constant wire and only enough power from the ACC wire to tell the unit when to turn on. Power on the ACC wire only drops off for as long as the engine cranks, which on most cars or at least good running cars is less than a second (0.8 seconds on mine), and at the most a second and a half to two seconds tops, any more than that and the car needs some work, how big of capacitor would you need to provide a 1/4 of an amp for 1 second?

 

however i do agree with you that a "pulse timer" like a D.E.I. 528T would work great to keep the device powered durring the "crank" cycle and would be very easy to wire in

[ot1]

a small battery or capacitor would be powering the ACC wire or at least a relay controlling the ACC wire, the AVIC pulls all of the power it uses for operation from the constant wire and only enough power from the ACC wire to tell the unit when to turn on. Power on the ACC wire only drops off for as long as the engine cranks, which on most cars or at least good running cars is less than a second (0.8 seconds on mine), and at the most a second and a half to two seconds tops, any more than that and the car needs some work, how big of capacitor would you need to provide a 1/4 of an amp for 1 second?

 

however i do agree with you that a "pulse timer" like a D.E.I. 528T would work great to keep the device powered durring the "crank" cycle and would be very easy to wire in

 

 

Using a battery as a remedy would put the battery in deep discharge when the ignition is off, not so good for the battery. It will stress the battery and it will fail in a very short timel, unless you wire in a low voltage protection circuit at an additional cost. But there is another problem with using a battery or cap......

 

How long the engine cranks can be a weather variable too, especially if its diesel, kept out in the cold, and yes maybe other mechnical problems with the engine. So the 1 second might turn into 4 or 5 secs of cranking. I didn't test this, but i'm guessing the boot up takes more than 250 milliamps to power up, but regardless...if you get a cap that can sustain a few seconds of no power input to the HU, then you will have a low voltage problem when the vehicle is shut off and the cap drains. Powering the HU with less than say 10v could eventually cause failure of the HU, you want a clean power shut off for the HU, something a cap or battery can't provide as they discharge, this is the equivelent of causing a "brownout condition" and brownouts can be devastating to electronics. IMO the most reliable, cost effective and best solution is the delay relay, and the 528T is available for $20 on Ebay.

[dougthug]

I'm curious, if you were to just start your car normally, would your AVIC do the same thing about every 4 or 5 times, or maybe every 8 to 10 since it sounds like that's how many times it's actually starting up in your case? I have a problem with mine since updating to the new firmware where every now and then, the screen just doesn't come up. It shows the normal "Pioneer" boot screen, but the screen won't be active once it gets loaded up. I think I heard of others having the same problem, but not sure. If that's the case, your problem isn't really your remote start, but rather your AVIC. Thanks.

[1loudls]

a small battery or capacitor would be powering the ACC wire or at least a relay controlling the ACC wire...

 

fine dont use a battery, but the cap does work, and we're not talking about a diesel we're talking about a toyota pickup

 

as the voltage from the cap drops below the threshold of what is needed to keep the relay energized, the relay would just shut off, giving you the "clean power shut off for the HU" you want to see and therefore there would be no brown out situation

[smoothavic]

Yikes installing the battery is a bit of over kill i think. To answer dugthug normal starts (nonremote starts) work fine everytime. I was hoping there was a hack that would just pause the boot up on the radio by about 5 seconds. But I will be researching the battery option.

 

Also is there a way to reboot it without hitting the reset?

[ot1]

a small battery or capacitor would be powering the ACC wire or at least a relay controlling the ACC wire...

 

fine dont use a battery, but the cap does work, and we're not talking about a diesel we're talking about a toyota pickup

 

as the voltage from the cap drops below the threshold of what is needed to keep the relay energized, the relay would just shut off, giving you the "clean power shut off for the HU" you want to see and therefore there would be no brown out situation

 

I must have overlooked that, I didn't see him specify what engine he had..however maybe someone reading this thread has a diesel...but you don't need a diesel necessarily to have a weather related cold start to require more cranking time, perhaps you got a tank of bad gas, maybe the car battery is old and not holding its cranking amps....so again the crank time could increase back to the 4 or 5 or more seconds with varying conditions.

 

The solution, whatever it may be, should take all possibilies into consideration to be "bullet proof". You suggested adding a general relay to the cap to prevent brownout, but relays... take your average 12 volt relay may pickup(make contact) at 10 volts...however the holding voltage/dropout voltage could be less and likely is less...several volts below pickup voltage, say 6 volts...I have seen 12v relays hold or vibrate at 5 volts...supplying your HU with 5-6 volts is not a good idea(brownout!)...Unless the person has the know how and equipment to test the relay for pickup voltage and dropout voltage they won't know how it will react in the cap/relay circuit. And then you have the size issue...a cap in the farad region will be huge...and expensive far more than a "528T delay relay"...then at your suggestion, one has to add a regular relay to it anyway, at more cost. Also you have something called inductive kick(voltage spike cause by the collapse of a coil voltage), which occurs with coils(the relay coil in this case) and caps, the design has to compenstate for that too.

 

So IMO the 528T is the only viable solution, it will cover any engine, even ones that require more crank time due to weather, inherent design, engine age, poor maintenence, etc, and work flawlessly time after time with no worries!, as long as the guy installing it knows what he is doing

[ot1]

Yikes installing the battery is a bit of over kill i think. To answer dugthug normal starts (nonremote starts) work fine everytime. I was hoping there was a hack that would just pause the boot up on the radio by about 5 seconds. But I will be researching the battery option.

 

Also is there a way to reboot it without hitting the reset?

 

You need a momentary SPDT switch(a SPST momentary will not work!) wired to the power line to force a reboot.

 

I have my doubts if a software hack would get into the MPU(microprocessor) early enough to properly delay boot up, maybe it could be done in firmware though.

[joegr]

I see a lot of discussion back and forth here about keeping (or not) the acc line powered. I don't think that this is the problem here. I think that the autostart is keeping the acc line on while the starter is engaged. Unfortunately, the car electrical voltage can drop below 10.5 V while the engine is cranking. This will cause the AVIC to crash if it is booting at the time.

I solved it with a 12V aux battery for the AVIC. It is important to know that this aux battery must power both the ACC lead and the constant power lead. If you just do the ACC lead you won't accomplish anything. As for the deep discharge comment, that is wrong. I have the battery wired through a diode such that it is always charged by the car (main battery or alternator). The AVIC runs off of the aux battery only for the seconds that it takes to crank the car each time, then it is recharged.

[idlewild]

powering the ACC with a relay will also be a problem if you don't isolate it from the rest of the car. If you provide ACC power(remember that ACC is just a TRIGGER to turn on things) and it's not isolated you will provide power to everything else on that ACC circuit. Now with that being said, that may not be a problem in the OP vehicle becasue if my memory serves me correct that vehicle has 2 ACC wires one for the rest of the trucks accessories and one for the radio. Some cars, like mine have only 1 ACC wire. You would need 2 relays to properly isolate.

[1loudls]

You would need 2 relays to properly isolate.

 

or just a relay & a diod, diods only allow power to flow in only one direction eliminating any back flow and isolating the circuit, also if you are using the constant power circuit as the source of power for the relay and ACC to trigger the relay and the acc wire on the AVIC is just hooked up to the relay and not multiple sources, 1 relay will be enough

[ot1]

You would need 2 relays to properly isolate.

 

or just a relay & a diod, diods only allow power to flow in only one direction eliminating any back flow and isolating the circuit, also if you are using the constant power circuit as the source of power for the relay and ACC to trigger the relay and the acc wire on the AVIC is just hooked up to the relay and not multiple sources, 1 relay will be enough

 

Back to the battery issues...when I said deep discharge will occur in a previous post, there was no mention of a diode at the time, without a diode "DEEP DISCHARGE WILL OCCUR". But depending on where you vehicle's voltage regulator's voltage cutoff is, keep in mind by adding a diode into the circuit to isolate the battery from the rest of the car, may not allow the GELCEL to charge properly. This is due to the forward voltage drop of the diode which is typically .7 volts. The vehicle voltage regulator is monitoring the voltage of the vehicle without the diode, and won't see the GELCEL's voltage isolated by the diode. A 12V GELCEL(lead acid without venting) requires 13.7 volts to charge it and 13.4v to float it. So add .7v to this and we have 14.1v to 14.4v. The vehicle voltage must achieve at minimum of 14.1 volts to float the GELCEL and 14.4v or better is ideal to charge it. And if your vehicle doesn't provide these minimums, the GELCEL will have a shortened life cycle. But if you know for sure the ACC is losing power during crank...which is what also happens to my vehicle put in the 528T delay relay because it won't matter what the cranking voltage is or how long it takes to crank because the AVIC will never be powered up before crank or during crank. The battery..is much bigger, too heavy even a small GELCEL weighs several pounds(its lead!) so it requires a strong mount, you must fuse it, too expensive, needs an additional relay anyway, requires periodic replacement and the diode charging issue. Why go through all this hassle with a battery/fuse/diode/relay combo??? I say again go with the 528T for the only viable, reliable, cheapest, easiest solution!!!