Why can't the Avic do that?

[rrmccabe]

I don't think there is anything else on the market that will do so much so well.

 

Its not the best at everything it does, but for everything its the best.

 

The new ZR1 corvette coming out is going to be one expensive SOB. Its not going to haul 6 people and pull a horse trailer. That does not make it a failure does it?

 

Sure the routing on the Z2 is not the best. How are the audio quailties on the Magellan? Bet its a blast to watch DVDs on.

[dawgbone]

....mother fucka..... That is not Pioneers fault. They just load data that is proveded by another company. So call tele nav ...

Ok buddy, you sure got this one wrong. It definitely is Pioneers fault that they chose Tele Nav to provide the mapping for Pioneer. When I spend $1800 on a Pioneer I don't have a choice over who's mapping I buy with it. Pioneer made that choice.

Good thing I've got that VW diesel which will last a long time because Google and VW have bonded to provide true 3D mapping just the way you can see it on Google earth. Can't wait to put one of those babies into my Passat.

 

You're right!!! But it's still not Pioneer's fault...Google and Garmin are not leasing their stuff out. Both companies are very capable of producing an equivalent/superior car nav system...But they choose not to....Tell me, does Garmin or Google produce HDTV's, AV receiver, car audio, portable DVD players, DVD players, etc... So it's safe to say, that they are in fact not interested in pioneering new technologies in other areas...

 

Point is...had Pioneer been able to team up with those big Nav companies, you don't think they would have?

 

Besides, Pioneer set the pace with the Avics... It's called the "bleeding edge" IMO...The AvicZ2 is a bargain at $1800...just think of what you're getting, and what all you can do with it....

 

I agree it has some quirks....but what is out there that is sooo much better? Give Pioneer some positive feedback on what you like an dislike, instead of giving them grief...They have the power to put pressure on TeleNav to make a better product....you should just tell them....and if/when you do....be mature about it...

[Z1 newbie]

Ok buddy, you sure got this one wrong. It definitely is Pioneers fault that they chose Tele Nav to provide the mapping for Pioneer. When I spend $1800 on a Pioneer I don't have a choice over who's mapping I buy with it. Pioneer made that choice.

Good thing I've got that VW diesel which will last a long time because Google and VW have bonded to provide true 3D mapping just the way you can see it on Google earth. Can't wait to put one of those babies into my Passat.

 

You're right!!! But it's still not Pioneer's fault...Google and Garmin are not leasing their stuff out. Both companies are very capable of producing an equivalent/superior car nav system...But they choose not to....Tell me, does Garmin or Google produce HDTV's, AV receiver, car audio, portable DVD players, DVD players, etc... So it's safe to say, that they are in fact not interested in pioneering new technologies in other areas...

 

Point is...had Pioneer been able to team up with those big Nav companies, you don't think they would have?

 

Besides, Pioneer set the pace with the Avics... It's called the "bleeding edge" IMO...The AvicZ2 is a bargain at $1800...just think of what you're getting, and what all you can do with it....

 

I agree it has some quirks....but what is out there that is sooo much better? Give Pioneer some positive feedback on what you like an dislike, instead of giving them grief...They have the power to put pressure on TeleNav to make a better product....you should just tell them....and if/when you do....be mature about it...

 

Positive feedback: Can't think of any.

Why? Because I needed a top navigation system and the Z1 was advertised as being that. I paid over $2000 for navigation and the only other feature that caught my eye was the voice control for hands free operation.

 

Voice control may as well not be in there as it's simply not working more than maybe 5% of the time.

 

Routing can not be trusted.

 

Pioneer could have easily found another map service. TeleNav is NOT the only one available outside of Magellan and Garmin but without a doubt either one would provide mapping to Pioneer at the right price. TeleNav offered the lowest price and got the contract.

If Google is willing to work with VW than I'm sure they would be, or would have been, willing to work with Pioneer.

If you guys want to be happy because of the amp or the i-pod interface then you didn't need a first class Navigation system in the first place.

And if that's the market that this thing is directed at then Pioneer should say so up front.

[Z1 newbie]

You're right!!! But it's still not Pioneer's fault...Google and Garmin are not leasing their stuff out. Both companies are very capable of producing an equivalent/superior car nav system...But they choose not to....Tell me, does Garmin or Google produce HDTV's, AV receiver, car audio, portable DVD players, DVD players, etc... So it's safe to say, that they are in fact not interested in pioneering new technologies in other areas...

 

Point is...had Pioneer been able to team up with those big Nav companies, you don't think they would have?

 

Besides, Pioneer set the pace with the Avics... It's called the "bleeding edge" IMO...The AvicZ2 is a bargain at $1800...just think of what you're getting, and what all you can do with it....

 

I agree it has some quirks....but what is out there that is sooo much better? Give Pioneer some positive feedback on what you like an dislike, instead of giving them grief...They have the power to put pressure on TeleNav to make a better product....you should just tell them....and if/when you do....be mature about it...

Just like most others, I've purchased the Z1 as a high end Navigation System. That's what it was advertised as and that's the area where it was claimed to excel.

Pioneer needs to hear that the Avics are no longer acceptable as high end navigation systems. They have been surpassed even by $200 units in that dept.

If Pioneer then wants to advertise them as audio systems with an added navigation feature, than they will be marketing to the consumers that the product is now most suited for and I'll have no problem with that.

 

When someone like me needs to have a Garmin on the dash in addition to that Z2 in the dash then something is terribly wrong with the Z2.

 

It's up to Pioneer how they lay down the law to TeleAtlas and bring about that much needed catch-up, or alternatively cancel their contract for non-performance and move on to someone who can keep up with the times.

[spta97]

Just like most others, I've purchased the Z1 as a high end Navigation System. That's what it was advertised as and that's the area where it was claimed to excel.

Pioneer needs to hear that the Avics are no longer acceptable as high end navigation systems. They have been surpassed even by $200 units in that dept.

If Pioneer then wants to advertise them as audio systems with an added navigation feature, than they will be marketing to the consumers that the product is now most suited for and I'll have no problem with that.

 

When someone like me needs to have a Garmin on the dash in addition to that Z2 in the dash then something is terribly wrong with the Z2.

 

It's up to Pioneer how they lay down the law to TeleAtlas and bring about that much needed catch-up, or alternatively cancel their contract for non-performance and move on to someone who can keep up with the times.

 

This thread and specifically your post has changed my mind about the AVIC-Z2 I was going to buy. I currently have Nuvi 350 and have been very happy with the navigation but I wanted to get a DVD player and backup camera in my truck.

 

However, if the Z2 does not perform the primary function (which I agree that it is being sold as a navigation unit) as well as the Garmin than it is not worth the money to me.

 

This is really a shame because I was really looking forward to getting one.

 

I am in the US - does that change things? Is the navigation better here?

[daveva]

Good for you! This is just what needs to happen to get pioneer to change. I don't know if you read some of my post but I sold my Z1 because as a nav system it's a piece of $hit. You want a real good laugh call pioneer tech support and complain that it will route you twentyseven miles out of your way and they will tell you its acceptable. Also tell them about this web site and how many people complain and they will tell you we don't listen to internet hearsay. Go buy a good nav system!

[djmixmac]

Is it the mapping (Teleatlas) or just Pioneer hardware/software thats lacking?

 

 

Cause I wonder if they switched to NavTeq?

[spolkyc]

... I paid over $2000 for navigation and the only other feature that caught my eye was the voice control for hands free operation. ...

 

Why did you buy a Z1 if you weren't interested in the media features! Basic rule, buy the unit with the features that you want/need. Don't get the printer with a built in fax and copier if you have no interested in a fax and copier. They are just extra features that can have problems and put a halt to your printing.

 

It's up to Pioneer how they lay down the law to TeleAtlas and bring about that much needed catch-up, or alternatively cancel their contract for non-performance and move on to someone who can keep up with the times.

 

I don't know or understand the code that is in the navigation systems but I would assume that changing to another navigation company is easer said then done. I would guess that the different companies data structures are different, at least enough that changing to a new set up would create major setbacks. They have a lot of time and money invested in this navigation software and rewriting the algorithm is not easy and you don't want a kludged fix either. Not to say that they should let TeleAtlas walk all over them but abandoning a setup could be bad too.

 

Also I found it kinda funny we all are talking about "needing" navigation and routing when it was only a few years ago that all of the routing was done in your head on a paper map. A computer even pointing to the destination on the map was great. I am not trying to bash you hard earned $$$ you spent on a system but trying to remind us that these are really luxuries in our cars not necessities. Its kinda like how people feel lost and useless with out their cell phones. Or that it can be unsafe to be in a populated area when there is a power outage, because people go crazy!

 

Yes, I have had routing problems before too and I just looked at the destination on the map and followed the road that took me there. Sorry for the rant.

[whtcrxghst]

I don't know a whole lot about writing code or anything, but I do know that the old stand-alone Pioneers(AVIC9/90/80) were NavTeq. Now you can buy the new TeleAtlas software and stick it in those models and it works fine, so I don't think there is a conflict between using teleatles or navteq as long as Pioneer is doing it. That being said, the routing was no better with NavTeq and the POI data was not nearly as cool. So I think its a routing problem on the Pioneer end, but like I said, its just an assumption.

 

With all that being said, I love my deck. The nav ALWAYS gets me there! And even if it does take a few minutes slower route, at least I got to listen to XM, Sirius, Ipod, Movies, etc. with a nice interface while I was getting there. I use the Alpine, Kenwood, and Panasonic units on a regular basis and Pioneer is still destroying the competition when it comes to navigation so quit whining...At least you don't have one of those decks in your ride or you would be even more upset

[pmason718]

Their are two main companies that provide maps to every navigational unit out there. The two are Tele atlas and Navteq. Tom Tom now owns Tele Atlas and Nokia recently bought Navteq.

[spolkyc]

I don't know a whole lot about writing code or anything, but I do know that the old stand-alone Pioneers(AVIC9/90/80) were NavTeq. Now you can buy the new TeleAtlas software and stick it in those models and it works fine, so I don't think there is a conflict between using teleatles or navteq as long as Pioneer is doing it. ...

 

Wow, very interesting. Well maybe I am wrong. Having a standard for "map" data / databases would be very cool. You then could do a cross referencing system for locations and routes and other neat things. Hmm....

 

Actually whtcrxghst you seem quite knowledgeable about these systems. I was wondering how much know about the AVICs internals. Specifically the IO for it's add on systems (DVD changer, Sat Radio, etc.). If your or others knowledge is as extensive as I hope I can start a new thread for my questions.

[whtcrxghst]

You mean my knowledge of the P-bus? Not much except that it works and there was a diagram on here of the pin configuration and what each does. Is that what you meant?

[Z1 newbie]

... I paid over $2000 for navigation and the only other feature that caught my eye was the voice control for hands free operation. ...

 

Why did you buy a Z1 if you weren't interested in the media features! Basic rule' date=' buy the unit with the features that you want/need. [/quote']

 

Hmmm, did you read the sentence that YOU'RE quoting?? I needed the navigation and liked the hands free voice control

Didn't have any option to NOT have the rest of the baggage. Pioneer neglegted to put into their advertisements that the routing is terribly flawed and the voice control, for all intense and purpose, doesn't work.

Unfortunately the reviews that I found at the time didn't make mention of those facts either.

 

I don't know or understand the code that is in the navigation systems but .....

Seeing that it's not open source, no one here could possibly understand it.

Once Pioneer were to understand that TeleAtlas is no longer up to speed, and that sales are dropping because of it, they would have no problem changing over to NAVTEQ or Google. (I know, Google doesn't currently provide mapping for these units BUT they will soon!) The change-over would probably be much more work for the lawyers than for the coders.

GARMIN uses NAVTEQ and the routing is almost always better, shorter, faster than the Z2.

I've now done my homework and have added the Garman Nuvi 660 to may dashboard. (It too has a lot of baggage that I'm not interested in) The Z2, because of it's bigger screen, still gives a better live map and I'm not going to rip it out until I find something that fits in there AND gives good routing.

Hopefully Garmin or Magellan will some day soon come out with their own in-dash version. Pioneer is certainly leaving the door wide open.

[Z1 newbie]

GARMIN and MEGELLAN both use NAVTEQ.

TomTom still uses TeleAtlas but has released the following info:

 

NAVTEQ (NYSE: NVT), a leading global provider of digital map data for vehicle navigation and location-based solutions, has signed a license agreement with TomTom, a leading navigation solution provider, to feature NAVTEQ maps in TomTom's new RIDER product, which is TomTom's first navigation product made specifically for motorcycles worldwide. The RIDER product will be launched later this year. TomTom's selection of NAVTEQ data for the TomTom RIDER product makes the integration of NAVTEQ maps of the United States, Canada and Europe possible across all TomTom navigation solutions. TomTom products will be NAVTEQ map ready following the planned release of the new TomTom RIDER product. This agreement brings together two market leaders. TomTom is well recognized for a range of portable personal navigation devices. Every automobile manufacturer that currently offers a navigation system in Europe and North America uses NAVTEQ maps in one or more of its models, and NAVTEQ is a leading provider of digital maps for the mobile navigation device and location-based services industries. "Making our products NAVTEQ map ready supports our commitment to customer satisfaction. The NAVTEQ brand is the power behind so many well-known navigation solutions. Pairing TomTom and NAVTEQ products together makes certain that our customers have an excellent experience with our navigation products," said Harold Goddijn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of TomTom NV.

 

If TomTom can switch to NAVTEQ, so can Pioneer. We just need to nudge them a little.

[spolkyc]

Yes I did, all I meant was you could get a simpler system like the one in my wifes legacy. I think it is a Kenwood but I am not sure of that. Nice navigation and navigation features with no A/V features. I think it is a great set up for her because she is not interested in a A/V system in her car and the navigation in LA and New Mexico is great!

 

I Bus pin-out diagram would be great, do you remember the thread? I have not seen that here but then again I have been away for a few months.