New Avic-X920BT and Avic-Z120BT User Manuals!!!

[john_tsouris]

All of the navigation manufacturer's engineers have very little vision, and ZERO knowledge of what their customers want. Eco routing. That's what they come up with.

 

But, Pioneer's stuff is to the point where they're close to having a great product. The new high-res displays are great. If those &%$#%^ guys had just put some more useful features into the navigation like searching for POI along a route, it really would be a flagship product.

 

The people at this forum could give Pioneer 100 great and simple things to roll out with the next update, but apparently Pioneer knows what's best and has no desire to listen. Instead, they're going the route of the cell phone manufacturers. Keep jamming useless features into it and never mind the fact that the phone call quality sucks.

 

Frustrating is right.

 

PS. My new X910 is a nice little unit! Some drawbacks, but it certainly beats the pants off the Z110 navigation wise. It will work nicely until I can drive up to Crutchfield and see JVC's and Kenwood's new navs in a couple months.

[VBLUE42]

I think the problem is that we are a very small amount of the over all customer base that buys these units. When 70 % of the people that buy this stuff never see this site and therefor don't know to voice there concerns, then Pioneer thinks they are on the right track. I don't really think they would have a problem listening to us if they felt we were the majority of the customer base. The fact is, we aren't.

[john_tsouris]

I can't imagine any of their customer base has ever told them they are on the right track. As for their dealers giving them feedback, their own dealers seem to know nothing about these units.

 

But I do agree they don't listen to us. I don't think they know 411 exists because the members here have some great and laughingly simple suggestions that if implemented, would make ALL of their customer base happy. It would shock me even more if Pioneer knew of this site, but still didn't entertain our requests to make these units better.

 

My wife is one who uses their navigation. She only uses the POI search function when traveling and she too immediately noticed how her Z3, and then Z110, searched not the road in front of her for a POI, but anywhere in the state. I would say she's a typical customer. She knows what doesn't work, but she has no interest in contacting a forum or Pioneer over it.

 

In fact, she bought a Z110 in January. She heard me mention that the X910 had a better navigation engine, and she had me order her a new one. I found a buyer right away for her two-weeks-old Z110, and shipped it off. When I installed the X910, she didn't expect how much smaller the screen was, and the slower button response, and now wants her Z back, so I ordered her a new Z110 AGAIN. (I would have waited to sell the old one, but the buyer was paying top dollar...)

 

She asked "Why doesn't the 'good one' look for stuff along a route or show details like the little one does?"

 

Good question.

[northbiker]

Would Purchasing a Z110BT be a bad investment since X920BT, and Z120BT rolling out soon?

 

Lastly, Is there any official confirmation that Z110BT be upgradable to latest of GUI of Z120BT, and X920BT?

 

Thanks.......

[VBLUE42]

No official confirmation from Pioneer yet but we know better. The most cost affective decision you can make is to buy the 110 now and then purchase the upgrade when it is released.

[VBLUE42]

I can't imagine any of their customer base has ever told them they are on the right track.

 

Thats the problem, People don't call to complain or don't know how, or care too.

 

As for their dealers giving them feedback, their own dealers seem to know nothing about these units.

 

Thats just bad dealers. But what is even worse, most people at Pioneer dont know much about their products.

 

 

I don't think they know 411 exists because the members here have some great and laughingly simple suggestions that if implemented, would make ALL of their customer base happy. It would shock me even more if Pioneer knew of this site, but still didn't entertain our requests to make these units better.

 

Oh they certainly know were hear. A lot of the brass at Pioneer seems to just disregard this forum as a bunch of rouge pissed off people rather then the most knowledgeable, credible consumers they have.

 

My wife is one who uses their navigation. She only uses the POI search function when traveling and she too immediately noticed how her Z3, and then Z110, searched not the road in front of her for a POI, but anywhere in the state. I would say she's a typical customer. She knows what doesn't work, but she has no interest in contacting a forum or Pioneer over it.

 

Most Pioneer consumers dont know there is something better and therefor are content with the meager choice of options offered. That gives Pioneer a green light to remain ignorant on their designs.

[dawgbone]

Coming from a Z2/3... I'd say that they did listen to their users....

They damn near fixed everything that I hated about the previous Z's....

 

I could easily ask for more(same as with anything)...

 

But they did fix nearly every complaint of mine, coming from the previous Z....

Even some of the littlest things... button color, and advertisements on the front panel... I can lay out at least 10 more things...but too lazy ATM... plus it's probably fruitless to go that in depth anyways...

[john_tsouris]

If Pioneer knows of this site, and doesn't have their own people posting, then I can literally see the Pioneer attitude. It's GFY. This is the same exact attitude that got Microsoft into trouble.

 

I have attempted to call Pioneer.... I do know how. The people I spoke to are obviously in an overseas call center. You get a canned response, and that's it. Nothing says "We don't care" like hiring a far away call center.

 

What's more than Pioneer people not knowing their products, the people at Pioneer obviously don't even use their own products. These sales guys must not drive to their customer sites, or they would know in two seconds that their "flagship" nav can't find the next McDonald's on their route. Did you see these two guys at CES? On and on for 10 minutes about the new x920 ipod interface, a minute or two about "Eco Routing" (A feature that not one customer will ever use, period), and oh, a lightning fast disclaimer mentioning that there's a nav system in there, too. Brilliant! And news up, the ipod isn't even your product, Pioneer. BTW, I just saw the youtube video of their senior marketing rep. 4:51 total time, and four seconds was devoted to the navigation portion. Guess what got more than three minutes of that.... an Apple product.

 

I have just scoured the internet for the contact info for the two sales promoters at CES. None to be found.

 

I own two businesses. I am constantly reminded by my customers of how our company goes out of its way to listen to them. The last thing I would have is contempt for what the customer is telling me.

 

As for dawgbone, yes, the new Pioneer systems do have some fixes, but they could use 100 more. Consumer nav technology is now nearing a decade of age and it is unacceptable to have basic functions missing from any unit made by a major manufacturer.

 

Oh, Pioneer is saying "Go build a better one, then?" Someone is, Pioneer, you better watch out. The first horse to the line with a high-res 7" screen and top of the line nav and my two current Pioneer nav's, as well as all future navs, are bye-bye Pioneer.

 

Okay, any Pioneer employee reading this? We don't bite. Logon and have a chat.

[VBLUE42]

I certainly agree with everything you say but I think your still missing it. This not a small business. It is a huge corporation. This attitude is the standard at these type of corporations. Especially with Japanese companies who are regularly out of touch with US consumers. The fact is however, there are no competitors in this field who are drastically better. Kenwood would be the next best thing but they also suffer from stupid design decisions. Honestly, the Pioneer units, however off the mark they may be, are all around the best products for a combination of features in their field. As far as Pioneer employees going on the record here, that will never happen.

[john_tsouris]

I hear ya. But just because they are big, doesn't mean they have to have closed minds or not go on the record. Delta airlines recently undertook a multi-million dollar project to install internet in all of their aircraft. This project included top guys at Delta interacting and taking advice from their customers via on-line blogs and chats.

 

No company is too big to listen to their customers. But some are so big they choose not to......

 

I agree that Pioneer is thus far the best, which is why I own two. But some of the decisions.... ugh!

[identityexpired]

Wow, I really think that the new A/V User Interface is very unattractive. The graphics and design looks very outdated. The design looks very aftermarket-ish. I do like the MusicSphere, but everything else about the User Interface sucks.

 

I really like the current A/V User Interface for the Z110 bt. I think its simple and sophisticated. Without all the crazy ugliness of an aftermarket look. The only thing I wished they changed was something very simple. I wished that it displayed more characters for song title, song artist, and album or even a scroll text display. There was no need to change the whole entire user interface.

 

I guess I'm stuck with the 2009 map for a while until they decided to change the A/V User Interface back to something more attractive.

 

I hope that the software/map update will allow me to customize and choose my updates. I highly doubt it. I guess there are pros and cons with combining the software and map update together. I'm sure it never crossed their (Pioneer) mind .

[CamelTowing]

Of the few Pioneer reps we have had in the past that actually knew their shit (all of whom have been laid off in the last two years) all openly admitted to me that they read this site religiously, but said their management team did not like them posting on an open forum that handed out information that could easily get them sued. They also weren't shy about saying whatever information they got from dealers usually went to some moron sitting in Long Beach that would NEVER bother to report it to Japan unless it would get him recognized for making a suggestion. So the guys in Japan don't drive (because nobody does there) and spend their days sitting in offices designing these things. Nobody tells them what sucks, nobody tells them why its hard to use while its moving, nobody bothers to test which phones work and which don't because they don't have the same ones there. The communication at Pioneer is retarded. Thats why we are stuck with products SO CLOSE to being awesome, thats why we are stuck with reps that don't know how to use navigation systems, and thats why nothing will ever change...well, until Kenwood can put out a product that sucks less than a Pioneer or they go out of business like their TV department did

[john_tsouris]

Good insight! That says a lot. And it's depressing.

 

Hey, perhaps a Pioneer guy can make an account here and not fully let on who he/she is. Secret-Pioneer-guy. Or how about "LongBeachFlyOnTheWall"? Hmmm. Maybe one of you is already here.

 

I agree with you. Sounds about right. I would ask that someone from Pioneer reading this forum take his own initiative to contact Japan. What, are you afraid of getting in trouble? Please. Get over it and become a big boy. Or at least anonymously post secret contact emails for Japan execs. We'll take over from there.

 

Your explanation also explains the Eco routing. In Japan, with resources so tight and they way society is over there, this sounds like something they would use.

 

But, they fellows in Japan do have the ability to improve their product. I've said this before.... anyone ever see the workings of the very first Wii? It was stunning how well that machine was put together, with intuitive programming and loads of features....and that's on version 1.0! Of course, the Wii is very popular over there, so perhaps the guys at Nintendo actually use their own product.

 

This might be attributed to screw ups and laziness by the people at USA -Pioneer. It is the American mindset that cuts corners, and covers up defects. Japan might be asking for input, and the "Long Beach" guys say "Everything is fine!" And Eco Routing sounds like an idea a dumb US executive would come up with and an even dumber one would roll with.

 

Sigh.

 

My wife's 2nd Z110 arrives today. My excitement level is near zero. But I do like the themes I've seen on here for the X910 going in my dash!

[CaptainInsaneO]

Hey, perhaps a Pioneer guy can make an account here and not fully let on who he/she is. Secret-Pioneer-guy. Or how about "LongBeachFlyOnTheWall"? Hmmm. Maybe one of you is already here.

 

Maybe one of us is.

[VBLUE42]

I have no doubt there is. If there is, they will never let on. I have worked for the US side of a Japanese company in the past that worked exactly as I see things happening at Pioneer. We monitored the forums on our products but we never let on. Its just something you don't do. We had an F series type fiasco that pretty much ruined our rep as the industry standard in the products we manufactured. I also, was the only one there that really seemed to care to get issues addressed and I was nearly an outcast for it. They did what they wanted to do and there really didn't seem to be any method to the madness for the design decisions that were made. In the end the company didn't survive as it did in the previous decade. The name is still around but the company is a fraction of what it was in the 80's and 90's.