Upgrading NEX4000 to NEX4100 - Work in Progress

cvondra · April 2, 2015

Just a heads up I have tried to contact Pioneer regarding this situation. I have spent almost 3K on head units over the past year two of the being NEX units BECAUSE of the messaging they used regarding upgradability in the future. Here is the message I ended up sending after I rolled through 1 tech support rep and two customer service reps. They were ver rude and unhelpful. I plan on making it my mission to get the word out on the bullshit they are pulling.

"Currently on the phone with Pioneer customer service and being treated like complete shit. I have been lied to more than once on this call and am being told that there are no managers to speak to. This is by far one of the WORST customer experiences I have ever had in my life. To release and sell a unit in the NEX line then turn around and not offer support for Android for those people who bought them then release essentially the SAME hardware and not offer any type of firmware or swap out upgrade path for 4000/6000/8000 purchasers is absolute robbery. Then to have a TECH rep try and tell me there is no 'ANDROID CHIP' in the earlier units is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard of in my life. There are people flashing the x100 firmware on the x000 units and Android Auto works flawlessly. The only thing that doesn't work is bluetooth which is the bluetooth stack. Then to have a customer service rep tell me that Google and Android are telling Pioneer its not compatible is another lie and complete BS. Maybe they had to pay to be 'CERTIFIED' and they chose to use the new model number and try to sell existing customers another unit less than a year later. Then to have the customer service rep tell me there are no supervisors or managers in the call center is ANOTHER lie. I have worked in various call centers and have NEVER seen no escalation path, no supervisors and no managers in an operating call center. BS. Doesn't happen. I'm not waiting ANOTHER lengthy time on hold. I have been lied to again for a multiple time. This is getting RIDICULOUS. I'm being told there is nothing Pioneer CAN do about this issue. BULLSHIT. There is nothing pioneer WILL do about this issue. Imagine buying an iphone then they release another iphone with new functionality and the PREVIOUS Version HAS THE CAPACITY to provide that function and they refuse to upgrade the firmware and refuse to give you an upgrade path on the new unit. Would you be pissed??? Of course you would.

The two customer service reps who basically told me to stick it up my ass and deal with it were:

Ashley (refused to give me her extension) and Richard x2320.

All because Pioneer cares more about pushing product rather than taking care of customers. I have spent almost $3,000 on head units in the last year and they say tough. Unreal.

All Iâ€™ve asked for is some type of upgrade path since I spent a pissload of money with Pioneer not just this year but over the years. What Iâ€™ve gotten is told to deal with it and parroted what the reps were told to say. ITâ€™S NOT TRUE. Wether the engineering dept. is conciously lying to the front line or unknowingly misguiding the front end support I donâ€™t know. But when people of very little engineering experience can change one version check line in a firmware flash and flash the 8100 firmware on the 8000 and the only issue is the BLUETOOTH STACK, Android Auto functions flawlessly, there is lying going on and I am not the average idiot customer who just listens to excuses and nods in acceptance. I will make it my mission to spread all over social media how horendously wrong it is to sell a device like the NEX an advertise the hell out of its upgradability then to turn around and spit in the face of the customers by NOT upgrading it. Thatâ€™s the whole reason I bought the NEX series, because it WOULD be upgradable. There is NO hardware upgrade needed for Android Auto, just like the phone side of Android Auto is a SOFTWARE UPGRADE TO ANDROID 5.0.1.

I want someone who actually gives a dam about their customers to give me a call and TRY to help me with this situation rather than telling me to go drop another grand + on new units.

If you donâ€™t believe what Iâ€™m saying go here:

http://avic411.com/index.php?/topic/80945-upgrading-nex4000-to-nex4100-work-in-progress/

What Pioneer is doing to their customers is bad business period. And Iâ€™m not going to sit around and take it anymore. I will make it my mission to spread my story and what Pioneer is doing to their customers over social media and to every person I run into. I will make dam sure that if Iâ€™m going to lose on this issue so will Pioneer. If that doesnâ€™t mean anything to Pioneer than I guess I am preaching to deaf ears. But if you have a conscience you might want to give me a call."

hdirani · April 2, 2015

I wrote a similar email that says the following:

I am not trying to tell you how to do your job but you may want to announce something that says that to people. Pioneer's reputation is dropping and you are being perceived as not caring about your customers and being all about the money. This includes me due to the fact that the key features I bought my radio for like Avicsync, maestro, and dual zone screen (not just for video for full mirroring) that I was told by a pioneer rep that works with cartunes that this would work and come to find out that they don't work as expected. If you don't believe me take a look at the forum avic411.com and see what people are saying. People have looked at the hardware specifications for both first and second generation and they are identical except for the screen. I paid almost 2k to get your radio installed in my car only to find out that most of the features were not ready yet and probably will never be ready. Now it is too late for me to return the unit because I waited too long so I got screwed out of $1400 because I was promised features that will be fixed in future updates and now have just been abandoned by releasing a newer unit. You have officially lost me as a customer.

Thank you,

I have yet to hear back.

newtonfb · April 2, 2015

Just a heads up I have tried to contact Pioneer regarding this situation. I have spent almost 3K on head units over the past year two of the being NEX units BECAUSE of the messaging they used regarding upgradability in the future. Here is the message I ended up sending after I rolled through 1 tech support rep and two customer service reps. They were ver rude and unhelpful. I plan on making it my mission to get the word out on the bullshit they are pulling.

"Currently on the phone with Pioneer customer service and being treated like complete shit. I have been lied to more than once on this call and am being told that there are no managers to speak to. This is by far one of the WORST customer experiences I have ever had in my life. To release and sell a unit in the NEX line then turn around and not offer support for Android for those people who bought them then release essentially the SAME hardware and not offer any type of firmware or swap out upgrade path for 4000/6000/8000 purchasers is absolute robbery. Then to have a TECH rep try and tell me there is no 'ANDROID CHIP' in the earlier units is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard of in my life. There are people flashing the x100 firmware on the x000 units and Android Auto works flawlessly. The only thing that doesn't work is bluetooth which is the bluetooth stack. Then to have a customer service rep tell me that Google and Android are telling Pioneer its not compatible is another lie and complete BS. Maybe they had to pay to be 'CERTIFIED' and they chose to use the new model number and try to sell existing customers another unit less than a year later. Then to have the customer service rep tell me there are no supervisors or managers in the call center is ANOTHER lie. I have worked in various call centers and have NEVER seen no escalation path, no supervisors and no managers in an operating call center. BS. Doesn't happen. I'm not waiting ANOTHER lengthy time on hold. I have been lied to again for a multiple time. This is getting RIDICULOUS. I'm being told there is nothing Pioneer CAN do about this issue. BULLSHIT. There is nothing pioneer WILL do about this issue. Imagine buying an iphone then they release another iphone with new functionality and the PREVIOUS Version HAS THE CAPACITY to provide that function and they refuse to upgrade the firmware and refuse to give you an upgrade path on the new unit. Would you be pissed??? Of course you would.

The two customer service reps who basically told me to stick it up my ass and deal with it were:

Ashley (refused to give me her extension) and Richard x2320.

All because Pioneer cares more about pushing product rather than taking care of customers. I have spent almost $3,000 on head units in the last year and they say tough. Unreal.

All Iâ€™ve asked for is some type of upgrade path since I spent a pissload of money with Pioneer not just this year but over the years. What Iâ€™ve gotten is told to deal with it and parroted what the reps were told to say. ITâ€™S NOT TRUE. Wether the engineering dept. is conciously lying to the front line or unknowingly misguiding the front end support I donâ€™t know. But when people of very little engineering experience can change one version check line in a firmware flash and flash the 8100 firmware on the 8000 and the only issue is the BLUETOOTH STACK, Android Auto functions flawlessly, there is lying going on and I am not the average idiot customer who just listens to excuses and nods in acceptance. I will make it my mission to spread all over social media how horendously wrong it is to sell a device like the NEX an advertise the hell out of its upgradability then to turn around and spit in the face of the customers by NOT upgrading it. Thatâ€™s the whole reason I bought the NEX series, because it WOULD be upgradable. There is NO hardware upgrade needed for Android Auto, just like the phone side of Android Auto is a SOFTWARE UPGRADE TO ANDROID 5.0.1.

I want someone who actually gives a dam about their customers to give me a call and TRY to help me with this situation rather than telling me to go drop another grand + on new units.

If you donâ€™t believe what Iâ€™m saying go here:

http://avic411.com/index.php?/topic/80945-upgrading-nex4000-to-nex4100-work-in-progress/

What Pioneer is doing to their customers is bad business period. And Iâ€™m not going to sit around and take it anymore. I will make it my mission to spread my story and what Pioneer is doing to their customers over social media and to every person I run into. I will make dam sure that if Iâ€™m going to lose on this issue so will Pioneer. If that doesnâ€™t mean anything to Pioneer than I guess I am preaching to deaf ears. But if you have a conscience you might want to give me a call."

Awesome. Nice job. I wrote a nasty email also. Unfortunately they just don't care and most people don't see anything wrong with what they did. I'm glad I'm not alone.

jeremyh · April 2, 2015

thats gotta be kinda hard going from the 8000 to the 41000. there a lot of features that you lost.

not for me, I bought so I could use the android Auto, I didn't really care for the navigation in the 8000nex, I like Google navigation better, I know the 8000nex had the captive screen, but that damn thing was dust magnet, and all I listen to is my google music or Sirius XM that's about it, one thing I think is great about the 4100nex the screen detaches. from the unit.

amutti · April 2, 2015

So I'm too chicken/don't have the time to mess with a broken radio to try this out on my own 4000, BUT I did start looking through the program files in the 4000 to 4100 upgrade, specifically PLATFORM/PJ140PLT.PRG with a text editor (TextWrangler) and there is quite a bit of plain text that should be modifiable and might have some impact on your efforts.

Specifically around line 778593 there are some configurations, by model number, that should be editable. If you open it with TextWrangler (Mac) or similar and search for "sysdconf_root" you should go right to the section I'm talking about.

Here is what is there:

<sysdconf_root>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</product>

</sysdconf_root>

amutti · April 2, 2015

BTW, this isn't in the 1.08 firmware

cvondra · April 2, 2015

I'm downloading the FW for the 8000 to 8100 and back. I am going to make a video proving that these bastards are lying about the 8000's hardware not able to run Android Auto. i've been torching their FB page in comments and hitting them on twitter along with sending an email to them and contact form complaints to them. It's unfkn real how they can shit all over a few customers and not give a dam about the business they are going to lose. Do they not understand the same type of customers that will evangelize their products to help sell them are the same people who will torch their company for abusing their customers creating loss in sales??? The people that don't care aren't the ones they need to be concerned about.

amutti · April 2, 2015

I can confirm that the new Bluetooth firmware (from the 4100) runs great on the 4000nex. It definitely connects faster and audio quality is no worse

dannyz3343 · April 2, 2015

thats gotta be kinda hard going from the 8000 to the 41000. there a lot of features that you lost.

On my 4000 the only feature I use is CarPlay. Don't care about HD radio, hdmi, Bluetooth streaming, contact sync, Appradio mode, dual USB, satellite radio, idatalink or any other stupid thing Pioneer half assed on my radio. If someone makes me a 7 inch 720 capacitive display with a decent amplifier for my speakers and nothing else I would buy it in a heartbeat.

jeremyh · April 2, 2015

ok guys here are some pics of the new 4100nex, I think the screen looks better than the captive screen on the 8000nex, its just as responsive as the 8000nex screen, I have moto G with android 5.0.1, and works perfect with the android auto, also I use idatalink masetro rr and before the 8000nex has issues with displaying the correct info on my secondary screen in my 2011 f150, the clock was 4 hours behind, and never had the correct info for songs on the display,and sometimes it would just freeze and the data would never change, the oem display works perfect now , the clock is correct, and give me the correct info on my oem display for songs that are playing, anyways here are some pics below :mrgreen:

therooster · April 3, 2015

Being the new guy here I'm hoping I can add to this discussion on two fronts, first and most importantly, getting the x100 series firmwares to work in our x000 units, and secondly how pioneer sees the whole support of older head units issue.

First,

From reading the fail overflow blog I think I have a pretty good idea as to why both he Bluetooth and idatalink issues are happening when a x100 series update is applied to a x000 unit.

It seems it may be related to the devices being mounted by the android OS.

Failoverflow lists the devices of the x000 firmware as follows.

/dev/ttymxc0 â€” console port (canâ€™t find this electrically)

/dev/ttymxc1 â€” Bluetooth module, 115200 bps

/dev/ttymxc2 â€” used to talk to â€œuComâ€, which is apparently a â€œSystem Microcomputerâ€ (?!?)

/dev/ttymxc2 â€” used for the GPS interface (not clear how this is shared with uCom)

/dev/ttymxc3 â€” used for RDS / TMC transceiver (not sure how this works)

/dev/ttymxc4 â€” used to talk to the iDatalink connector on the back of the unit

/dev/ttymxc4 â€” CAN bus interface (not used on my model)

In theory, if the x100 firmware is using different device names for the ports, then when the OS goes to look for something it can't find it and therefore can't communicate with it.

It also follows that the device names might be set in a system area which is not modified by the newer firmware and hence the communication problem.

I guess the way to test this theory is to pull a full SD card out of an say an 8100 and put it in an 8000. If everything then works as advertised, then you would simply have to do a "full" update of all partitions to the 8100 firmware and bravo, a 8100 in the body of an 8000.

The failoverflow blog gives a ton of insight into the inner workings of the OS in these units. Well, at least it gives enough insight to start looking at reasons why the units might not be fully working on the new firmware. It seems that it's fair to believe that the older x000 hardware should support this newer firmware. Unfortunately I don't have the tools or the time to verify this theory, but I'm throwing it out there in he hopes it might help someone crack this.

Now, my second part of this and the catalyst for the first part.

One of my best friends owns a very successful car stereo shop. Over the 20 or so years we have been friends I help him do installs from time to time and often enjoy troubleshooting "interesting" problems with him. I was lucky enough to have him in invite me to a trade show today. While there I got into a rather heated and lengthy discussion with the Pioneer rep in charge of the whole northeast region of the U.S. He wasn't a bad guy but he was definitely a salesman to the core. I beat him up pretty badly for the lack of support for older units and he utter failure of Pioneer with issues such as Avicsync. In the end the two things he said that pissed me off the most were.

"We are in the business of selling radios." Which means to me why update older stuff when we can force you to buy a new unit if you want these features that badly.

"If we build a million radios this year we will sell a million radios this year. Pioneer is car audio." Which translates to... We don't have to put effort into continuously improving our products because we are banking on the fact that we can sell half assed products which are still better than our competitors.

Unfortunately he's sort of right. He pissed me off so much I was ready to rip out my NEX-8000 and buy the top of the line Kenwood with CarPlay. Problem there is that the Kenwood with CarPlay isn't even released yet and it is still lacking compared to the NEX-8000 from last year. So Pioneer knows exactly what they are doing, much to the dismay of all the tech geeks like myself. Personally, I think the best way to fight back is to get a perfectly working x100 firmware for the x000 series receivers and show the world how full of crap Pioneer is about these "hardware" differences. Sorry for the long post. Just my $.02.

EditorDZ · April 3, 2015

Thanks Rooster,

both very insightful thoughts!

DP3343 · April 3, 2015

Being the new guy here I'm hoping I can add to this discussion on two fronts, first and most importantly, getting the x100 series firmwares to work in our x000 units, and secondly how pioneer sees the whole support of older head units issue.

First,

From reading the fail overflow blog I think I have a pretty good idea as to why both he Bluetooth and idatalink issues are happening when a x100 series update is applied to a x000 unit.

It seems it may be related to the devices being mounted by the android OS.

Failoverflow lists the devices of the x000 firmware as follows.

/dev/ttymxc0 â€” console port (canâ€™t find this electrically)

/dev/ttymxc1 â€” Bluetooth module, 115200 bps

/dev/ttymxc2 â€” used to talk to â€œuComâ€, which is apparently a â€œSystem Microcomputerâ€ (?!?)

/dev/ttymxc2 â€” used for the GPS interface (not clear how this is shared with uCom)

/dev/ttymxc3 â€” used for RDS / TMC transceiver (not sure how this works)

/dev/ttymxc4 â€” used to talk to the iDatalink connector on the back of the unit

/dev/ttymxc4 â€” CAN bus interface (not used on my model)

In theory, if the x100 firmware is using different device names for the ports, then when the OS goes to look for something it can't find it and therefore can't communicate with it.

It also follows that the device names might be set in a system area which is not modified by the newer firmware and hence the communication problem.

I guess the way to test this theory is to pull a full SD card out of an say an 8100 and put it in an 8000. If everything then works as advertised, then you would simply have to do a "full" update of all partitions to the 8100 firmware and bravo, a 8100 in the body of an 8000.

The failoverflow blog gives a ton of insight into the inner workings of the OS in these units. Well, at least it gives enough insight to start looking at reasons why the units might not be fully working on the new firmware. It seems that it's fair to believe that the older x000 hardware should support this newer firmware. Unfortunately I don't have the tools or the time to verify this theory, but I'm throwing it out there in he hopes it might help someone crack this.

Now, my second part of this and the catalyst for the first part.

One of my best friends owns a very successful car stereo shop. Over the 20 or so years we have been friends I help him do installs from time to time and often enjoy troubleshooting "interesting" problems with him. I was lucky enough to have him in invite me to a trade show today. While there I got into a rather heated and lengthy discussion with the Pioneer rep in charge of the whole northeast region of the U.S. He wasn't a bad guy but he was definitely a salesman to the core. I beat him up pretty badly for the lack of support for older units and he utter failure of Pioneer with issues such as Avicsync. In the end the two things he said that pissed me off the most were.

"We are in the business of selling radios." Which means to me why update older stuff when we can force you to buy a new unit if you want these features that badly.

"If we build a million radios this year we will sell a million radios this year. Pioneer is car audio." Which translates to... We don't have to put effort into continuously improving our products because we are banking on the fact that we can sell half assed products which are still better than our competitors.

Unfortunately he's sort of right. He pissed me off so much I was ready to rip out my NEX-8000 and buy the top of the line Kenwood with CarPlay. Problem there is that the Kenwood with CarPlay isn't even released yet and it is still lacking compared to the NEX-8000 from last year. So Pioneer knows exactly what they are doing, much to the dismay of all the tech geeks like myself. Personally, I think the best way to fight back is to get a perfectly working x100 firmware for the x000 series receivers and show the world how full of crap Pioneer is about these "hardware" differences. Sorry for the long post. Just my $.02.

I went to my local car audio shop the other day and asked the guy which company makes the best displays. He told me none of them because they all buy the same crap and it all sucks. Speaks volumes to the car audio industry.

MSB · April 3, 2015

I say lets get together and donate to Cover_Death to buy the new 4100 and a 4000. Then lets put our thinking caps on and lets get this thing working.

Lets do it to show everyone that Pioneer is full of BS (when it comes to Android Auto will not work on the old 4000 units)

TheRooster has a valid point in his first statement, thanks for pointing that out.

any thoughts?

therooster · April 3, 2015

Just a quick update.

I had a little free time and decided to play with the update process.

Same results as everyone here regarding the bluetooth issue.

What is a bigger concern to me is the Navigation portion having a whitewashed screen with the 1.03 X100 update applied. I'm not sure if this is a map issue.

I think the key here is to extract the internal SD card from an X100 series model and try it in corresponding X000 series model. That way we know if it is a firmware issue or if Pioneer has somehow intentionally "tweaked" the new models to purposely break an attempt at updates.

This is a very worthwhile project, I just hope we can get enough collaboration to make it a go.

Again, I think the failoverflow blog is an invaluable resource to help us along this journey.

Upgrading NEX4000 to NEX4100 - Work in Progress

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